The Last of Us (TV Show)

Barnsy! wrote:

jiggles wrote:What part of the game does episode 4 cover up to? I’m playing alongside and trying to keep pace where I’m just ahead of the show.

That is such a cool way experiencing the game and TV show - have you been keeping this up.

I did yeah, I just wrapped up the PS5 remake a few days ago there. Never more than the next episode ahead the whole way through.

The only exception was Left Behind, which I didn’t go through. Didn’t make sense from the game side (it’s not *supposed* to be inserted in there).

It turned out to be a great way to do it. Kept the motivation up to go through a game I’ve beaten 4 times already while also allowing me greater clarity of comparison. There weren’t going to be any surprises in the series anyway, so I was happy to refresh my memory even more and compare the two more directly.

Brilliant season of television.

My take on the 'moral dilemma' (SPOILERS for last episode):

Not watched it yet but having played the games I'm excited for everyone to find out speedboatchase didn't post any spoilers

Just finished it. Fantastic again.

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Just finished it. Fantastic again.

I'm very happy that they've gone back to his brother's town. I hope they find out about Ellie and accept her though. Can't wait till next season, well we've got to as it looks to be about two years away

I was a little saddened though that Joel had to lie to her at the end. I would have preferred it if he told her they were going to kill her to try to extract the virus and without any idea if it would work or not. And he didn't think it was right to do it without her permission.

The fireflies screwed it all up in my opinion. They went there to meet Joel and Ellie but the patrol weren't actually on the look out for a man and girl? They didn't need to recognise them, surely as soon as they saw a man and girl alone they would have dealt with it differently. Okay so they messed that but up. But then to deceptively put Ellie into surgery without explaining stuff to her and Joel. Ultimately if they still planned on doing it for the greater good then fine but at least time the path that involves explaining it all first. If Ellie agreed then maybe Joel would have as well. No one else dies and you potentially get your cure.

Also talk about overreaction to speedboat. He said nothing different to the voice over person before the show started. Who called it a shocking and gripping end to the series.

But on the other hand

jiggles wrote:But on the other hand

Why give her the choice? She says yes, and gets to spend her final moments knowing she’s about to die, or she says no and… she still spends her final moments knowing she’s about to die, but mad about it.

Whether or not Ellie was ok with being sacrificed doesn’t change the fact that the fireflies are ok with sacrificing her to save humanity. Consent means nothing here, they’re not going to say “oh, well, never mind, back to the apocalypse”

Imrahil wrote:

jiggles wrote:But on the other hand

Why give her the choice? She says yes, and gets to spend her final moments knowing she’s about to die, or she says no and… she still spends her final moments knowing she’s about to die, but mad about it.

Whether or not Ellie was ok with being sacrificed doesn’t change the fact that the fireflies are ok with sacrificing her to save humanity. Consent means nothing here, they’re not going to say “oh, well, never mind, back to the apocalypse”

That might make sense if Marlene planned to despatch Joel while he was incapacitated. But due to her connection to Joel she had already decided to let him go, knowing how dangerous he was. So she massively screwed up.

I think there's also something deeper going on too, perhaps. Like, if your very first step in claiming to help humanity is to lose your humanity towards an individual (which they undoubtedly did towards Ellie who they were about to murder), can human society ever recover again anyway? Since that mindset will only perpetuate their downfall. I don't believe for a moment the Fireflies wouldn't pick & choose who they deemed 'worthy' for saving, again going down a terrible path. Assuming the dodgy science even worked.

jiggles wrote:

Imrahil wrote:

jiggles wrote:But on the other hand

Why give her the choice? She says yes, and gets to spend her final moments knowing she’s about to die, or she says no and… she still spends her final moments knowing she’s about to die, but mad about it.

Whether or not Ellie was ok with being sacrificed doesn’t change the fact that the fireflies are ok with sacrificing her to save humanity. Consent means nothing here, they’re not going to say “oh, well, never mind, back to the apocalypse”

That might make sense if Marlene planned to despatch Joel while he was incapacitated. But due to her connection to Joel she had already decided to let him go, knowing how dangerous he was. So she massively screwed up.

I think there's also something deeper going on too, perhaps. Like, if your very first step in claiming to help humanity is to lose your humanity towards an individual (which they undoubtedly did towards Ellie who they were about to murder), can human society ever recover again anyway? Since that mindset will only perpetuate their downfall. I don't believe for a moment the Fireflies wouldn't pick & choose who they deemed 'worthy' for saving, again going down a terrible path. Assuming the dodgy science even worked.

Oh, I’m not saying they’re an evil group or have bad intentions. They are trying to do what’s best, but unfortunately in this case they had to choose the lesser evil for the big picture. I haven’t seen the episode yet, so forgive me if what I’m saying doesn’t align with the adaptation, but Marlene letting Joel go, but saying “shoot him if he tries anything” to his escort epitomises this. They have to do it to Ellie, no matter what, and they have no beef with Joel. He did, after all, do them right, and could be as much humanity’s saviour as Ellie. If he walks away he’s free to go, but if he can’t, he has to be stopped because this is bigger than everyone, including Ellie.

The difference between giving Joel the choice and not giving Ellie one is down to the fact that Ellie doesn’t actually *have* a choice. Performing the procedure with her blissfully unaware is a mercy, just like when they euthanised that infected kid in episode 1.

Final episode felt very faithful to the game even to the point of it seeming weird how Joel just mowed through a dozen guys. There was something quite routine about it in terms of how quickly they got through it. The little skit at the start felt unnecessary, in fact I think I prefer having that aspect of the story a bit of mystery. To see it was almost a little dull.

Overall the show was great both Pascal and Ramsey played the characters brilliantly. I think it could have used another few episodes to show some of the character development at a bit of a gentler pace. The fact ep3 has nothing to do with the story ultimately hurts the whole season but as an episode viewers seemed to go nuts for its hard to criticise. While it's a really well put together show I found myself regularly feeling that the whole thing felt rushed and compressed. The longer time you have to develop the story and characters in the game is a massive advantage but even the shot for shot scene remakes I thought the games version was generally far superior. For the show though the ensemble cast is brilliant the overall world design is excellent and it has some genuinely thrilling action set pieces. Hoping they can learn some lessons get a bit more budget and enhance Part 2 of the game, the story from which I don't think is anywhere near as good as Part 1. I think Part 2 is ripe for improvements in a way that this first series never really had a chance for.

Captain Kinopio wrote:The little skit at the start felt unnecessary, in fact I think I prefer having that aspect of the story a bit of mystery.

Not just unnecessary, but it raises questions that make for a worse and more contrived plot. Ellie being the only person with immunity isn't as unique and final when we are shown it to be basically a vaccination that could happen to anyone and be repeated rather than a one-off genetic fluke. Worse still Marlene was there to see the circumstances of her birth (near enough) so should have the knowledge of how to try and find a cure. With this new context the Fireflies don't necessarily need Ellie, they can try replicating her immunity!

I liked the rest of the finale but that above has soured me particularly because it wasn't necessary.

I had the same thought, although setting infected on pregnant women in the middle of childbirth would be particularly dark.

Overall felt the first half of the series was stronger than the second. It ended up feeling way too rushed, Left Behind kind of kills the pacing and tbh probably could have been cut, maybe spread the flashbacks to scenes throughout the series. The David stuff should have been over two episodes instead.

More episodes would have helped the Joel and Ellie relationship too. Of the nine episodes, I think there was only one episode with just the two of them, then four episodes when they were barely together.

The series needed more infected as well, they went the whole show without a scene of Joel and Ellie working together to deal with some. Didn't need to be action all the time but could have done with some Clicker stealth kills, or just sneaking past.

Taking out all the infected scenes sort of puts into question why a vaccine is so necessary. Besides the horde in Kansas City (which actually saved them), they seemed to travel the rest of the country without seeing a single infected. At least they were certainly lethal whenever they did show up.

Just nitpicking really but excited to see how they deal with adapting the much more challenging Part 2, which would benefit from some trimming down. Was wondering if we'd get any teases for it in the finale but I didn't spot any.

as much as i did love the show, some great stuff there, i did keep wondering where all the spores was. seeing joel try and get through an area full of spores would have been fun.

Ploiper wrote:as much as i did love the show, some great stuff there, i did keep wondering where all the spores was. seeing joel try and get through an area full of spores would have been fun.

I don’t think the spores are a thing in the tv version.

All done. I thought the series was excellent but as good as the cast are, almost every like-for-like line was delivered better in the game, mostly in the timing and pauses. They all felt too quickly delivered!

I get that it’s easier to hone that to perfection in a game. You could basically just invent idle time between lines because the whole thing is imaginary. But they have the blueprint right there already!

Captain Kinopio wrote:

Ploiper wrote:as much as i did love the show, some great stuff there, i did keep wondering where all the spores was. seeing joel try and get through an area full of spores would have been fun.

I don’t think the spores are a thing in the tv version.

Yeah it’s not, they swapped them out for a ‘mushroom like network’. This article explains it well.

https://www.polygon.com/entertainment/2 ... v-show-hbo

I really liked that lore change, they could have done more with the network alertness thing

Ironically the tendril network thing feels like more of a dumb game mechanic than what's in the actual game. I can see why they didn't want to go with spores though.

Spores means people have to wear gas masks, which in a tv show like this is pretty gooseberry fool for showing acting performances. Works for Mando, but even in that you get them taking their helmets off all the time.

Spores makes for a better reason to have a vaccine. Seems like the only way people are getting infected in the show is through bites, but if you're in a situation where you get bit, you're probably dead by being ripped apart anyway.