The Leftovers - Begin Again. Series finale out now in the US.

Enjoyed that and definitely in for the 1st season. It's certainly going to split opinions though even without the preconceived notions. Wasn't keen on the smoking cult but interested in the issues surrounding it. A lot of different things to stuff into the pilot.

I'm on board. Very intriguing pilot.

Photek wrote:Can't be arsed watching this if they can't even explain why the dissapearances happened. Lost was the biggest pile of garbage ever released.

You say that like them not explaining the why is necessarily a bad thing. It's matter of focus; they could try to do both or double down on one, in this case the fallout of how people cope with unexplainable and random loss, a much more relatable and potentially affecting topic than some made up sci-fi nonsense for why 2% of world's population suddenly disappeared.

And yes, Lost was the worst thing ever released. In any format. Ever.

"Built around the drama" my arse, the whole strawberry floating pilot was about the mystery of it all. I'll watch this in five or so years if they actually do anything decent with it, although I suspect it's going to be another character drama with gooseberry fool characters and no explanation.

[iup=3496034]Crimson[/iup] wrote:I'm on board. Very intriguing pilot.

Photek wrote:Can't be arsed watching this if they can't even explain why the dissapearances happened. Lost was the biggest pile of garbage ever released.

You say that like them not explaining the why is necessarily a bad thing. It's matter of focus; they could try to do both or double down on one, in this case the fallout of how people cope with unexplainable and random loss, a much more relatable and potentially affecting topic than some made up sci-fi nonsense for why 2% of world's population suddenly disappeared.

And yes, Lost was the worst thing ever released. In any format. Ever.

I dont get your point, are you saying that its a good show cos of how the the show portrays people coping with unexplainable and random loss while at the same time saying the main plotline is nonsense?

Also, doing both or doubling down on one is a made up point, they could explore both avenues, its not a either/or scenario apart from your own mind obviously.

[iup=3497488]Photek[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3496034]Crimson[/iup] wrote:I'm on board. Very intriguing pilot.

Photek wrote:Can't be arsed watching this if they can't even explain why the dissapearances happened. Lost was the biggest pile of garbage ever released.

You say that like them not explaining the why is necessarily a bad thing. It's matter of focus; they could try to do both or double down on one, in this case the fallout of how people cope with unexplainable and random loss, a much more relatable and potentially affecting topic than some made up sci-fi nonsense for why 2% of world's population suddenly disappeared.

And yes, Lost was the worst thing ever released. In any format. Ever.

I dont get your point, are you saying that its a good show cos of how the the show portrays people coping with unexplainable and random loss while at the same time saying the main plotline is nonsense?

Also, doing both or doubling down on one is a made up point, they could explore both avenues, its not a either/or scenario apart from your own mind obviously.

I'm not saying it's automatically good for choosing to focus on that. I'm saying that for me, the more compelling show is in looking at how society copes with a mass disappearance on a fundamental psychological or emotional level; that is the main plotline of this show. The supernatural element is merely a catalyst for allowing the drama to occur. Personally I'm not interested in why it happened, whether it be vengeful gods or some top secret military project gone wrong, that's all been done so many times before and I want something different.

Lindelof tried doing both before and Lost was the result which was is in your own words "...the biggest pile of garbage ever released" so you of all people should understand why for his next venture he would rather not try to be all things for all people again, instead immediately setting expectations that there isn't going to be a resolution to the mystery. If that turns you off the show then that's fine, it's not for you and you won't have to waste your time sitting through episodes waiting to something to happen that simply isn't going to because it's against the show's philosophy of providing closure when there is none to be found (like a lot of awful senseless, random life changing acts that people unfortunately undergo and are out of their control). But to suggest that it is an inherently flawed or lazy piece of work because it very deliberately chooses not to provide answers, makes it clear that it won't, and does so for a very good reason is kinda ridiculous.

Lindelof's "next venture" after Lost was Prometheus, then the Star Trek sequel, then World War Z. I think at this point it's fair to just call him a gooseberry fool writer rather than one who made mistakes.

And no the psychological coping isn't the main plotline of the show; the main plotlines of the show are "what's up with this spooky cult" "what made the cop go crazy" "what's up with those twins" that's all mystery; not some psychological drama about grief

It IS lazy though to just not even attempt to explain what is effectivley going to be (for me and many others) the rather massive strawberry floating elephant in the room. Surely the biggest question of all is Why? The writers could have come up numerous real world events to simulate the pain of loss or at least a spin on them, but no, they comfortably (and in my mind) ridiculously end up with - "people dissapeared, deal with it". Well im not watching that im sorry.

Lost for want of a better word was lost up its own arse. It was tripe, think of anything that pops into your head and crowbar it into the script. I've just thought of a dog that breathes fire, now, in Lost he would appear out of nowhere set fire to a strawberry floating tree and piss off never to be seen again with no explanation, thats the very definitition of lazy writing. Once again Lindelof cant even comprehend in his mind that some people DO want explanations to events, I can't think of any other show that had more loose ends than Lost had. I fear this will be the same, most shows introduce a character or a story arch that you can follow to its conclusion, many interweving but still has a conclusion or an explanation.

So you're base argument for this is, its a series about how people will cope with loss and a life changing event, and that in its self is a 'very good reason' to not provide answers. I strongly disagree. The fact you admit the the main plotline is nonsense makes me want to watch it even less.

[iup=3497646]Irene Demova[/iup] wrote:Lindelof's "next venture" after Lost was Prometheus, then the Star Trek sequel, then World War Z. I think at this point it's fair to just call him a gooseberry fool writer rather than one who made mistakes.

And no the psychological coping isn't the main plotline of the show; the main plotlines of the show are "what's up with this spooky cult" "what made the cop go crazy" "what's up with those twins" that's all mystery; not some psychological drama about grief

I was referring to TV when I said next venture work but yeah sure, his movie stuff is less than stellar.

I don't know about that, depends how you define mystery I suppose. Those things you mention are all very much tied into traumatic scarring and pretty much every character we've seen so far is trying to go about their lives but being held back by the grief of the past, whether that be by being unable to go forward in the way they'd like or not wanting to at all. There are things we don't know about the characters and their back stories but that's most shows. Don Draper is a man shrouded in mystery but I wouldn't call Mad Men a show about mystery.

It's early days anyway, obviously hard to get a really good sense of where the show will go based only on the pilot but I would be disappointed if it opted for a big mythology directly related to the disappearance itself.

[iup=3497655]Photek[/iup] wrote:It IS lazy though to just not even attempt to explain what is effectivley going to be (for me and many others) the rather massive strawberry floating elephant in the room. Surely the biggest question of all is Why? The writers could have come up numerous real world events to simulate the pain of loss or at least a spin on them, but no, they comfortably (and in my mind) ridiculously end up with - "people dissapeared, deal with it". Well im not watching that im sorry.


So you're base argument for this is, its a series about how people will cope with loss and a life changing event, and that in its self is a 'very good reason' to not provide answers. I strongly disagree. The fact you admit the the main plotline is nonsense makes me want to watch it even less.

At no point have I said the main plotline is nonsense. Trying to provide a 100% logical reason for a supernatural event would in and of itself lead to a nonsense answer of some degree because it can't by definition be explained in rational terms and I think to try to do would undercut the show's manifesto.

The entire basis of the show, and the point that the pilot drove home in my mind, is that there is no reason why; ""people dissapeared, deal with it" - exactly. The characters are trying to find meaning where there is none, trying to order the chaos around them into something manageable they can live with. I can't say why exactly but thematically that really appeals to me. I guess I can understand why it wouldn't for some, it depends on which type of storytelling approach works for you.

I think Damon Lindelof is an excellent writer. I mean, the film stuff is a bit of a grey area (the whole multiple writers / drafts thing is bewildering) but his TV work is generally top notch. Some people not being satisfied with Lost's resolution doesn't negate the quality of the show along the way.

Bit of an odd one, and interesting concept, and immediately you realise if they explain the disappearance then there is no show. Nothing that really grabbed me to begin with but certainly it was interesting enough to make me watch another episode or two.

Loved that first episode. Interesting. Lost is still one of my favourite shows, I don't want all the answers to the mystery up front. As Zartan said, there would be no show.

Photek, did you like Shaun of the Dead? The Road? Any of the Romero zombie films? They never explain what happened in their fictions either. Stories do exist where the drama comes from consequences rather than causes.

[iup=3497988]CuriousOyster[/iup] wrote:Loved that first episode. Interesting. Lost is still one of my favourite shows, I don't want all the answers to the mystery up front. As Zartan said, there would be no show.

Thats not my issue, the creators have said that they are never going to explain it.

Tafdolphin, Theres a massive difference but cant be arsed going into it if you cant tell.

[iup=3498045]Tafdolphin[/iup] wrote:Photek, did you like Shaun of the Dead? The Road? Any of the Romero zombie films? They never explain what happened in their fictions either. Stories do exist where the drama comes from consequences rather than causes.

I've not seen any of the Romero films you mention, but the two movies in bold, unlike Lost, didn't start out by gaining a massive following and piquing peoples' interest through allusion to all kinds of mysterious and bizarre goings-on.

1x01 wasn't bad. Johnson from Peep Show is a cult leader I can believe in.

One mystery solved already(the bagels)in the 2nd episode so I hope everyone is happy. A few new developments on previous storylines.

Slow, but really interesting. Still totally unsure about it, but it has certainly done enough to keep me watching for now

That was a damn fine episode. From the critics it seems like the show really gets going half way through this episode so a lot of hope for the future.

That was pretty great, ballsy to almost completely set aside the all the other character this early on for an entire ep in favour of focusing completely on someone we had only very briefly seen in the pilot.

It worked very well though.

Still do not think enough has happened, I think I have one more episode left for them to provide me a hook