The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

Brerlappin wrote:The first big town i found after leaving the great plateau, i thought "all right, here we strawberry floating go". It looked awesome, had interesting looking characters in it, and i was expecting side quests, story beats, whatever, all the usual stuff you get when you find a new town in these kind of games. Instead, all you got was some guy asking you to find missing chickens, and 1 (one) main quest. And every other NPC in the town is just that. An NPC there to make the town look busy, no quests, no story, theyre just...there.

There are 4 (four) main quests and 8 (eight) side quests in that town.

There are also 4 merchants (plus Kilton), an inn, and right nearby is a great fairy fountain.

Also don't chat gooseberry fool about the cucco quest that is a goddamn Zelda institution

Brerlappin wrote:The gameplay is okay? I guess? I mean it WOULD be okay, if it weren't for weapon degradation. The single biggest sin that the game commits. "Oh tis to stop you using one weapon for the entire game and makes you use everything". Why? Why cant i just use the big stick of gooseberry fool slapping i found for as long as i like? Because Nintendo dont want me to? How is that player freedom? You're going to make every cool ass weapon i find break in 5 hits then whats the strawberry floating point in having all these weapons? I found one epic sword near the beginning of AC:Odyssey and it looks gooseberry fool cool and did great damage so i just keep upgrading it. I could switch to something else if i wanted to but i don't. I like my golden god sword of eagle smashing so thanks for not making it out of soggy cardboard and twigs, Ubisoft.

The weapon degradation is not a problem with the game (yeah I'll commit to that), it's a problem with your perception and expectations. Do you complain about every first person shooter for giving you limited ammunition? Presumably you understand the design choice of limiting the ammo you find for the strongest guns? Well guess what - Breath of the Wild is almost mechanically identical. The problem is your expectation that a melee weapon should not break, not an issue with the mechanic itself. If weapons didn't break the whole game's design would be broken - you'd find a strong weapon early on and that would be that. The complaint is the equivalent of someone playing Halo, getting the rocket launcher, and then complaining that they can't use it exclusively for the rest of the game.

Yes you're suppose to constantly switch up your approach. That's what the game is built around - experimentation with various systems and mechanics. If you don't like that, then the game isn't for you, because that's one of the primary design goals and why the game is so appealing. The game does everything it can to encourage the player to experiment and innovate and that's where the fun of the game lies.

Denster wrote:Why the endless need to debate it.

Because I'm objectively correct Denster and I need vindication on the internet!

I don't agree with that Halo analogy as the weapons in that are balanced to the point that anything in any given situation. I find that the weapon degradation in BOTW hinders experimentation as I often pick the shittest weapon I have as I don't want my level 40 flaming spear to break in three hits and be left with a level 3 wooden sword. Why couldn't they encourage players to use a variety of weapons by making them interesting to use rather than simply forcing players to swap? Hell even making weapons last a bit longer would be better as going back to your analogy this is like if in Halo every gun in the game that you picked up having 3 bullits and you potentially using your rocket launcher and being left with a nerf gun.

I'll agree that the weapon degradation isn't a problem as such but it's another system that I don't understand why people see it as some amazing leap forward in the genre. The common praise is "The best thing about BOTW is that you can play it any way you want!" but people leave out the caveat "not that way though, you're playing it wrong".

*Edit* Yeah what Brer said, even though I like the game a lot more then him

I disagree with the Halo analogy because Halo is shite and most of the refinements it made to the genre were actually terrible.

I have no opinion on weapon degradation, which seems to make me odd. On the one hand, I see the annoyances. On the other, they never bothered me that much. Any tension I had about paucity of weapons was self-inflicted, and I basically never actually ran out. That said, the ‘Fog Test’ mention is ironic because Sterling hates that system!

Granted, it would be nice if, late-game, you could find an essentially unbreakable weapon...

Brerlappin wrote:Force a player to constantly change what weapon theyre using by making them break after about 5 hits, and crucially, making them break mid-fight, forcing you to open a menu, select a new weapon and hope it has enough durability to survive the fight (which, funnily enough a lot of the time it didnt, forcing me to go through 2 or three weapons in big fights), bad game design.
Is it fun to experiment with weapon types? Yes of course it is. Is it fun to have to constantly dive in and out of the menus in the middle of a fight to change weapons on the fly because every sword in Hyrule is carved from osteoporosis riddled bones? No, it really isnt.

The menu argument is completely disingenuous when there is a one button quick select for equipping a new weapon, and when you have no weapon equipped you auto-equip the next one you pick up. Your description of menu diving in the middle of a fight is just... not true.

Brerlappin wrote:

The problem is your expectation that a melee weapon should not break, not an issue with the mechanic itself. If weapons didn't break the whole game's design would be broken - you'd find a strong weapon early on and that would be that. The complaint is the equivalent of someone playing Halo, getting the rocket launcher, and then complaining that they can't use it exclusively for the rest of the game.

This comparison is..no. It makes no sense. It only works if every sword you found in BoTW was as OP as the rocket launcher in Halo. But even the shittest, crappiest twig in BoTW breaks after about 5 minutes of use. A more appropriate comparison would be like saying imagine if The Assault Rifle in Halo Broke after 2 seconds and forced you to switch to a needler, which then broke, forcing you to use a plasma pistol, which then broke etc etc. You dont expect to have limited ammo for the most basic guns in the game, forcing you to switch to melee attacks when they run out and then spend ages just meleeing everything until you find a replacement. But this is exactly what BOTW does, you find even the most basic, crappy rusty travellers sword, it breaks in about 3 minutes, and now youre back to smacking things with a strawberry floating twig again.

I only ever ran out of weapons once in BOTW (when I went into a test of strength shrine too early and forgot I could teleport out), so the suggestion that you run out of weapons is not true. The most basic guns you don't run out of ammo for because you constantly pick up more from the enemies you kill. Well guess what happens in BOTW! You never run out of standard weapons because you constantly pick up more from the enemies you kill. The comparison is fine. The rocket launcher is analogous to when you find a really strong weapon in BOTW - you save it for when you need it, and as the game progresses the quality of the average weapon you pick up goes up, meaning that what you once would have saved becomes your standard weapon of choice. If any complaint can be leveled at the weapon system in BOTW's end game, it's that you have too many weapons!

If you're at a point where you're falling back to basic clubs as weapons, it's because you're very early in the game where those basic clubs are a perfectly viable weapon. (The twig comment is clear hyperbole as the stick is a viable weapon you might find yourself using for roughly the opening 2 minutes of BOTW).

You don't run out of ammo for the basic weapons in Halo, and similarly you don't run out of weapons in BOTW.

Brerlappin wrote:A more appropriate comparison would be like saying imagine if The Assault Rifle in Halo Broke after 2 seconds and forced you to switch to a needler, which then broke, forcing you to use a plasma pistol, which then broke etc etc

Imagine if the assault rifle ran out of ammo which forced you to switch to another gun on par with the assault rifle, and then a needler, and then by the time that runs out of ammo you already have more assault rifle ammo. Now that's a more appropriate comparison.

Hime wrote:I find that the weapon degradation in BOTW hinders experimentation as I often pick the shittest weapon I have as I don't want my level 40 flaming spear to break in three hits and be left with a level 3 wooden sword.

Apart from that fact that such a damage difference is highly exaggerated, it's fine to save your best weapon for when you need it. You could completely reverse that statement by pointing out it's encouraging experimentation with your other weapons rather than you just sticking to the flaming spear.

I think there is something to say for the player needing to break the mentality of not wanting to use their best stuff though (the classic RPG consumable item trap). Everything in BOTW is there to be consumed and you need to not worry about losing weapons because you're always going to get more.

Can you press a button to just equip your next sword, then? I've just been holding the D-pad and selecting one with the right stick. Can you just tap it to equip *a* new weapon?

Frank wrote:Can you press a button to just equip your next sword, then? I've just been holding the D-pad and selecting one with the right stick. Can you just tap it to equip *a* new weapon?

That's what I mean by the quick select, it's just a d-pad press and pick. You don't have to dive in and out of the menus

Ahhh, okay. Thought there might have been an even quicker way to do it

Brerlappin wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:That's what I mean by the quick select, it's just a d-pad press and pick. You don't have to dive in and out of the menus

So opening the quick select menu doesnt count as opening a menu. Got it.

So changing weapons on a weapon wheel counts as breaking up a fight by having to "constantly dive in and out of the menus in the middle of a fight" in your opinion? Got it.

It literally takes less than a second, anyone reading your complaint would assume you're opening a full screen menu and browsing through it for several. I don't get how you can find it so obtrusive.

OrangeRKN wrote:

Brerlappin wrote:The first big town i found after leaving the great plateau, i thought "all right, here we strawberry floating go". It looked awesome, had interesting looking characters in it, and i was expecting side quests, story beats, whatever, all the usual stuff you get when you find a new town in these kind of games. Instead, all you got was some guy asking you to find missing chickens, and 1 (one) main quest. And every other NPC in the town is just that. An NPC there to make the town look busy, no quests, no story, theyre just...there.

There are 4 (four) main quests and 8 (eight) side quests in that town.

There are also 4 merchants (plus Kilton), an inn, and right nearby is a great fairy fountain.

Also don't chat gooseberry fool about the cucco quest that is a goddamn Zelda institution

Brerlappin wrote:The gameplay is okay? I guess? I mean it WOULD be okay, if it weren't for weapon degradation. The single biggest sin that the game commits. "Oh tis to stop you using one weapon for the entire game and makes you use everything". Why? Why cant i just use the big stick of gooseberry fool slapping i found for as long as i like? Because Nintendo dont want me to? How is that player freedom? You're going to make every cool ass weapon i find break in 5 hits then whats the strawberry floating point in having all these weapons? I found one epic sword near the beginning of AC:Odyssey and it looks gooseberry fool cool and did great damage so i just keep upgrading it. I could switch to something else if i wanted to but i don't. I like my golden god sword of eagle smashing so thanks for not making it out of soggy cardboard and twigs, Ubisoft.

The weapon degradation is not a problem with the game (yeah I'll commit to that), it's a problem with your perception and expectations. Do you complain about every first person shooter for giving you limited ammunition? Presumably you understand the design choice of limiting the ammo you find for the strongest guns? Well guess what - Breath of the Wild is almost mechanically identical. The problem is your expectation that a melee weapon should not break, not an issue with the mechanic itself. If weapons didn't break the whole game's design would be broken - you'd find a strong weapon early on and that would be that. The complaint is the equivalent of someone playing Halo, getting the rocket launcher, and then complaining that they can't use it exclusively for the rest of the game.

Yes you're suppose to constantly switch up your approach. That's what the game is built around - experimentation with various systems and mechanics. If you don't like that, then the game isn't for you, because that's one of the primary design goals and why the game is so appealing. The game does everything it can to encourage the player to experiment and innovate and that's where the fun of the game lies.

Denster wrote:Why the endless need to debate it.

Because I'm objectively correct Denster and I need vindication on the internet!

So, while you nerds are arguing about menu options I'm out here having the time of my strawberry floating life. Got me a horse/bulldozer that straight-up wrecks any and all comers.

I call him Depardieu.

twitter.com/Tafdolphin/status/1057609753348567040

If there's one thing I hate it's games making me dive in to menus rather than just opening them.

Ad7 wrote:If there's one thing I hate it's games making me dive in to menus rather than just opening them.

You have to dive because immersion.

Tafdolphin wrote:So, while you nerds are arguing about menu options I'm out here having the time of my strawberry floating life. Got me a horse/bulldozer that straight-up wrecks any and all comers.

I call him Depardieu.

Taf has the right idea. People who enjoy the game (most of them) enjoy the game, people who don’t don’t, and that’s a matter of opinion; but the latter group don’t get to ride around on f**k-off massive horses.

I called it Fathorse.

I have yet to find FuckingMassiveHorse, but I'm very much looking forward to it.

The best thing about him is the way I found him: someone told me. It didn't mark anything on the map, I didn't get a new quest, someone gave me a location in a conversation which I screenshotted. I then followed the directions and voila, there he was.

He's alright but he isn't a motorbike so

There's only one thing I'll add here. Only twigs, rusty weapons and maybe a travellers sword against a massive moblin lasts 5 hits, probably more. I can't remember. Sure weapon degradation is noticeable in the game early on but as you progress you have too many weapons you want than you can hold. At the moment I have like 10 Lynel weapons which are the strongest in the game and the Royal weapons last many hits and there are some with substantial longevity buffs.

I agree with orange rakoon in that the game presents you with a limitless supply of almost everything provided you can be bothered to play the game.

I think it might be a question of playstyle. Like, play a certain way and you're less likely to get more weapons than you pick up. Like not using up your weapons when they start flashing, which would leave you with tons of weapons at their breaking point, then the next big fight comes around and they all break before you're halfway through the fight. Or not exploring shrines enough to find the secret chests (many of which contain weapons). Or avoiding combat because you're low on weapons (taking on an enemy camp is an excellent way of replenishing your supply).
I think the game does a good job in general of nudging players towards the kind of playstyle that gains you more weapons than you lose, but there's always going to be some people who miss out on the subtle hints and nudges (or just really prefer playing games a certain way).

Regards weapon degradation, I loathed it at the outset but eventually I adjusted and after a while it ceased to bother me.