Star Wars: The Mandalorian - Disney+.

Photek wrote:It's a wider question of philosophy to a degree, do you think Ben Shapiro preaches to the converted and literally no one ever gets persuaded by him?

I think you're missing my point.

I am not doubting that left leaning people get converted to the far right. Of course that happens.

What's nonsense is saying that they joined the far right because of things the left wing said. Nobody hears "let's be nice to trans people" and immediately storms off to join Combat 18.

What happens is they start hearing "trans people will rape your daughter in the public toilet" from far right banana splits. That's what turns them into far right nutjobs.

Once on the far right, they will then say "see! I used to be left wing but YOUR identity politics turned me against you!!".

It's bullshit, they were already far right before inventing the excuse that it was the left wing that forced them to the dark side. It's basically a very sad attempt at shutting up lefties, "stop fighting for equality or you'll make it worse!". We see it with BLM as well - "all this taking the knee is divisive, you're making racism worse!".

I never did like Dawson's Creek, so never watching it again is no biggie for me really.

Ive never seen that picture in motion before, and it's worse than I could ever have imagined

Mafro wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Photek wrote:It's a wider question of philosophy to a degree, do you think Ben Shapiro preaches to the converted and literally no one ever gets persuaded by him?

I think you're missing my point.

I am not doubting that left leaning people get converted to the far right. Of course that happens.

What's nonsense is saying that they joined the far right because of things the left wing said. Nobody hears "let's be nice to trans people" and immediately storms off to join Combat 18.

We're going around in circles, making unfounded and baseless accusations is not the same as 'lets be nice to trans people'. We largely agree and I'm not missing your point, I just think, especially in the US, you'd be surprised how naive people are. I talked a guy out of 20 bizarre views from 'The Civil war wasn't about slavery (a white supremacist talking point btw) to 'there's too many people in the world', he's not left of right, he was just extremely naive and (probably) stupid.

Victor Mildew wrote:Ive never seen that picture in motion before, and it's worse than I could ever have imagined

Photek wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Photek wrote:It's a wider question of philosophy to a degree, do you think Ben Shapiro preaches to the converted and literally no one ever gets persuaded by him?

I think you're missing my point.

I am not doubting that left leaning people get converted to the far right. Of course that happens.

What's nonsense is saying that they joined the far right because of things the left wing said. Nobody hears "let's be nice to trans people" and immediately storms off to join Combat 18.

We're going around in circles, making unfounded and baseless accusations is not the same as 'lets be nice to trans people'. We largely agree and I'm not missing your point, I just think, especially in the US, you'd be surprised how naive people are. I talked a guy out of 20 bizarre views from 'The Civil war wasn't about slavery (a white supremacist talking point btw) to 'there's too many people in the world', he's not left of right, he was just extremely naive and (probably) stupid.

Right. But that's nothing to do with my point, which you seem to be consistently missing.

I’m glad I watched all of The Mandalorian before hearing about this Carano woman. I’m also glad I didn’t give Disney any money.

Moggy wrote:

Photek wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Photek wrote:It's a wider question of philosophy to a degree, do you think Ben Shapiro preaches to the converted and literally no one ever gets persuaded by him?

I think you're missing my point.

I am not doubting that left leaning people get converted to the far right. Of course that happens.

What's nonsense is saying that they joined the far right because of things the left wing said. Nobody hears "let's be nice to trans people" and immediately storms off to join Combat 18.

We're going around in circles, making unfounded and baseless accusations is not the same as 'lets be nice to trans people'. We largely agree and I'm not missing your point, I just think, especially in the US, you'd be surprised how naive people are. I talked a guy out of 20 bizarre views from 'The Civil war wasn't about slavery (a white supremacist talking point btw) to 'there's too many people in the world', he's not left of right, he was just extremely naive and (probably) stupid.

Right. But that's nothing to do with my point, which you seem to be consistently missing.

You think the people aren't swayed either way by things people on the left say. Correct? (If I have this wrong I apologize)

I'm arguing that while that maybe true, the right and spineless weasel's like Jordan Peterson weaponize that the left say. Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Dave Ruben have all been on The Joe Rogan podcast which (while I HATE IT) is a large platform for these on a show that has a presenter that thinks he's to the left (spoiler alert, he's not).

Photek wrote:[

You think the people aren't swayed either way by things people on the left say. Correct? (If I have this wrong I apologize)

I'm arguing that while that maybe true, the right and spineless weasel's like Jordan Peterson weaponize that the left say. Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson and Dave Ruben have all been on The Joe Rogan podcast which (while I HATE IT) is a large platform for these on a show that has a presenter that thinks he's to the left (spoiler alert, he's not).

Your original point was:

I'll not go on about it but I will say that this kind of thing is the reason why the Left keep strawberry floating up and push idiots to the right.

That's completely different from people being brainwashed by Shapiro and Shapiro lying about what the left has said.

Moggy wrote:

I'll not go on about it but I will say that this kind of thing is the reason why the Left keep strawberry floating up and push idiots to the right.

That's completely different from people being brainwashed by Shapiro and Shapiro lying about what the left has said.

I phrased it badly, my mistake but my point is they'll point out the stuff that the left lied about (which I said is very little) and mix that in with facts and figures that are not based in reality (either per capita is not used or they'll omit factors in a 'survey' so they are essentially pointless). Joe Rogan has even been pushed to the right in real time by these grifters.

This leads to another discussion, do you think people like Joe Rogan should be condemned for platforming these people? I personally strongly think he should be.

People don't get pushed towards View X by hearing about contrary View Y. What they do is secretly harbour a fear about View X, probably created by parents, peers or others who have taught them to think that way, and then it gets reinforced by a media sources or a group of contemporaries.

We are all programmed to think that we are right - no-one thinks of themselves as intolerant or unreasonable. It's a lot easier to allow ourselves not to be challenged on our views, but to see pieces of gooseberry fool on things like Fox News and think: "I knew I was right to dislike those people all along".

Photek wrote:This leads to another discussion, do you think people like Joe Rogan should be condemned for platforming these people? I personally strongly think he should be.

I've never listened to Rogan so I don't know if he is agreeing with them, appeasing them or properly debating them.

I think the likes of Shapiro should be starved of oxygen though. They are not honest debaters, they are dangerous grifters.

Parksey wrote:People don't get pushed towards View X by hearing about contrary View Y. What they do is secretly harbour a fear about View X, probably created by parents, peers or others who have taught them to think that way, and then it gets reinforced by a media sources or a group of contemporaries.

We are all programmed to think that we are right - no-one thinks of themselves as intolerant or unreasonable. It's a lot easier to allow ourselves not to be challenged on our views, but to see pieces of gooseberry fool on things like Fox News and think: "I knew I was right to dislike those people all along".

I don't disagree with this take to a point, 'it's a lot easier to allow ourselves not to be challenged on our views' but how did they form the views? MNightShyamalan.jpg

Well I just said, didn't I? From parents and peers. No-one exists in a vacuum, and our primary experiences and concepts of the world around us come from our parents.

It's a miracle Luke Skywalker turned out the way he did, to be honest. Absentee father and wasn't Uncle Lars raised by a slaver or have I misremembered that?

Photek wrote:

Parksey wrote:People don't get pushed towards View X by hearing about contrary View Y. What they do is secretly harbour a fear about View X, probably created by parents, peers or others who have taught them to think that way, and then it gets reinforced by a media sources or a group of contemporaries.

We are all programmed to think that we are right - no-one thinks of themselves as intolerant or unreasonable. It's a lot easier to allow ourselves not to be challenged on our views, but to see pieces of gooseberry fool on things like Fox News and think: "I knew I was right to dislike those people all along".

I don't disagree with this take to a point, 'it's a lot easier to allow ourselves not to be challenged on our views' but how did they form the views? MNightShyamalan.jpg

General ignorance.

Thinking you are left wing doesn't automatically make you knowledgeable and also doesn't mean you are not racist/transphobic. Plenty of working class Labour voters for instance do so because their parents and grandparents were active in trade unions and brought their kids up to vote Labour. Or because they think Labour will help the working classes more. That doesn't mean they subscribe to any actual (social) left wing ideas.

It's bloody easy to take bigoted Labour voters and tell them that Labour love the Muslim immigrants, will sell us out to the EU and want men in dresses to rape schoolgirls.

Parksey wrote:Well I just said, didn't I? From parents and peers. No-one exists in a vacuum, and our primary experiences and concepts of the world around us come from our parents.

It's a miracle Luke Skywalker turned out the way he did, to be honest. Absentee father and wasn't Uncle Lars raised by a slaver or have I misremembered that?

Well my parents don't share my views at all and I genuinely do look into things. If people point a finger that something I go and read up on it from a few angles. I found out Pewdiepie was a piece of gooseberry fool thanks to this forum but I should have looked into it further myself before, since then I research anyone I watch and/or politically agree with.

I honestly think I just have more interaction with people from the right because of my Wife being American and having many trump supporting extended family plus my brother and his adult children are borderline insane. (a nod to the point of parents influencing their children)

I barely use Facebook at all but on Inauguration day I changed my Profile Picture to Biden and watched the world burn...