Prototype wrote:Green Gecko wrote:Well, technically, you aren't, not until 11pm.
I would wait until then.
Assume you mean in terms of most local authority 11-7 guidance? Good luck with having anyone enforce that. If it's a one-off, no problem, but if it's continual noise and nuisance in the evenings, every evening, they'd tell you there's nothing they could do.
Hence going down and having a word.
I have the excuse that I have a kid that I'm trying to get to sleep, but it should be no different for someone without a kid. People should expect some level of peace in the evening times and I would expect most tenancy agreements have terms similar to this built in.
It's not only local authority guidance but yes I was referring to the law that defines the "night time period" as 11pm to 7am, it's in the Noise Act (a brilliantly named law given how meaningless that word is) but the environmental protection act maybe says stuff:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/37/section/2If you are specifically bothered by noise in the "night" i.e. potential sleep disturbance then it is defined between those hours. It's later than people think.
During the day, things are more flexible I believe but it is also not really defined beyond what the "secretary of state" deems acceptable noise levels.
I don't believe there actually is any kind of legal definition for what "noise" is.
I don't know who or what defines it and can't be bothered to read lots of legislation but in residential areas with the possible exception of idiots moving in near music venues or pubs etc and complaining about that, it's meant to be around 70dB is considered reasonable level of noise.
70dB is actually around the volume of just people talking in a quiet room. There are probably various other laws covering things like DIY, tools, musical instruments etc.
Up to and including 11pm around 70dB is reasonable noise, it would seem, and with that literally being talking, yes the council aren't going to do anything. But they can issue noise abatement notices spuriously, I think they do have the power to basically just make their own minds up about it, perhaps depending on how persistent and/or pissy the complainant is. But the person making the "noise" might appeal in court and have that abatement cancelled, say for example they have a right to carry out their practising of music or have a party sometimes (not all the time). A lot of those things are based on legal precedents (case law), and licensing etc. For example musicians who perform music or practice with a view to do that have a right to carry it out as a "practice" i.e. an art, to become or be a musician. That one's a bit complicated.
11pm is basically the cut off for deliberately making "additional" or "excessive" noise, given that's so incredibly subjective and given how quiet 70dB actually is, any reasonable person I think would have some grace about it in both directions. We don't nor should we, or anyone, or anything (including my favourite example, wild animals like birds) exist in a vacuum. The irony of expecting that is that psychoacoutistically it makes the problem
worse the more we expect that.
It's technically better for wellbeing for the nervous system to adapt to anticipate some sound happening, sometimes. It's the only way anyone can learn to cope without living in literal space. Like, hyperacusis, misophonia, tinnitus, and all sorts, are real (I have them), and the best treatment is just understanding sound better.
Something repeatedly exceeding like 90 to 100dB for days on end or at irregular and unpredictable times probably would and imo should get stopped.
Just living is unfortunately neither noise in my opinion or preventable by law.
I say that with extremely "severe" sound sensitivity myself, but I've learnt to not hate all noise. There are days when for example I get pissed off with scaffolders endlessly being commissioned to repaint houses ALL THE TIME here with their WEEEEERRRRk WEEEEERK impact driver sounds. There are other days when someone decides to sit on my outside wall and talk continuously for an hour, or pace back and forth for the same 10 feet on their phone for an hour and a half, or work/tradespeople doing some stuff in the street and constantly yelling at each other using pneumatic tools because they're deaf BECAUSE they never use hearing protection, and gooseberry fool like that, which is irritating.
That last time I just went out and called down the street at the same volume that I could hear them talking VERY LOUDLY for 4+ hours. They told me to strawberry float off and eventually left. Fine.
But generally speaking I try to reason with it.
I did call the police lately when some people were snorting speed or coke or ketamine or whatever off their hands in the driving seat of their car, alongside another car, practically exploding their car's frame (like it was massively distorted on maximum volume), playing hardstyle gabba/grime or some gooseberry fool. More so because driving around under the influence is not cool, and that could have quickly gotten out of hand. Plus it was half 2 in the strawberry floating morning, and they were just rolled up on the corner obstructing the road. As far as intervention goes, I simply sat outside, watched them for a while, gave their registrations to the police and they sent a patrol around.
I said and did nothing to provoke them, all the while they were evidently so oblivious that I was even there on the phone talking about them, they could easily have sped off and killed someone or themselves.
That's the kind of thing I consider taking the piss. Otherwise, I deal with my hyperacusis and cope mostly by moaning about it. It's very quiet 95% of the time so I'm grateful for that and get on with my life.
I'm fortunate not to live in a flat, maybe , but I'm also paying insane rent which wasn't a planned thing. Pick one I guess.
Here are a bunch of random references which on their own can be surprising and unsurprising depending on your PoV. Loads of stuff we consider "normal" noise, like passing traffic, exceed the "residential" noise threshold.
A normal conversation: 60-70 dB
Open office noise: 65-75 dB
An alarm clock: 70-80 dB
Washing machine: 70 dB
Dishwasher: 70 dB
Restaurant: 70-80 dB
Vacuum cleaner: 60-80 dB
Hearing is by its vary nature subjective, relative and constantly shifts depending on a variety of neurophysical, biochemical, psychological factors so dB levels are pretty meaningless. That's why it's such a hotly contested thing.
It's basically an impossible problem. Thank you everyone for not reading my unsolicited analysis.
BTW I don't mean to have a go at anyone in this thread at all, it's a subject I'm deeply interested in as I studied the difference between sound, noise and music and I think it tells us a lot about what it is to be human.
I can hear the most ridiculous gooseberry fool, like coil whine from power adapters within a several feet away, I can hear my TV on while playing nothing, anywhere in the room, I can hear my fridge, lightbulbs, plumbing, radiators, you name it. I can hear the sea from 2,000 feet away, and wind rushing through plants or trees 100+ feet away. Traffic from miles away.
There's literally no other option than to change my relationship with sound if I find it annoying. Generally by doing something else that may or may not make noise. Sure it doesn't help that my brain has zero filter.