The Money Thread...

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
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Qikz
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Qikz » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:44 pm

Tomous wrote:

:toot: :wub:


strawberry float yeah this video made me feel great and I'm not even investing. :lol:

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The Watching Artist wrote:I feel so inept next to Qikz...
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Moggy
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Moggy » Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:51 pm

Qikz wrote:
Tomous wrote:

:toot: :wub:


strawberry float yeah this video made me feel great and I'm not even investing. :lol:


Same.

And I'm agreeing with something on Fox.

:lol:

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Knoyleo » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:11 pm

twitter.com/bdgrabinski/status/1354893641123151873


:cry:

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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Tomous
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Tomous » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:18 pm

I don't believe it is actually possible for us to get our head round just how detached the ultra rich are from society

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Qikz
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Qikz » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:34 pm

strawberry float the rich man. Our system is so broken and I want to see them all burn. Pay your strawberry floating taxes you pieces of gooseberry fool.

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The Watching Artist wrote:I feel so inept next to Qikz...
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Grumpy David
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Grumpy David » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:08 pm

pjbetman wrote:
Tomous wrote:Not sure I've asked this before but I'm finally getting my gooseberry fool together-what's the best way of investing in index funds?

I want to use the £20k ISA allowance and put it in some index fund where it can sit for the long-term and tick along nicely.

What are the best online portals to do this through? Obviously looking for as low a fee as possible. Nutmeg is one I've been looking at.



Look into Blockfi. 8.6% on balances.

Use this ccode for $10 each:-

https://blockfi.com/?ref=958e20e9


Doesn't seem to fit the criteria of:

    Being able to use the ISA allowance

    Being an Index Tracker

If low fees are a high priority (which they should be for an index tracker) then Vanguard's trackers are amongst the cheapest and their platform (website) is the cheapest place to purchase them.

There are some HSBC and Blackrock funds which are low cost too but I'm particularly keen on Vanguard because it operates as a mutual (think the difference between a building society and a bank).

With index trackers, my personal preference is for maximum diversification. If I'm unable to find the needle in the haystack, I'll just buy the haystack.

The portfolio data drop down shows the geographical split, industry split etc. It just buys the market "as is".
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-global-all-cap-index-fund-gbp-acc/overview

I'm not a particular fan of Nutmeg because I hold it to a higher standard i.e. A cool fintech company should be out competing most funds but their charges are actually quite high for what the product actually is.

Last edited by Grumpy David on Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rocsteady
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Rocsteady » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:31 pm

I chuck all my spare money into Vanguard index trackers. Tend to split between equities/bonds, 60/40.

I know someone who was a very senior investment banker and she told me to just go down the Vanguard route years ago, was good enough advice for me. Had a nice return from it too. (Though nothing crazy like Igor's, but my risk tolerance is very low).

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pjbetman
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by pjbetman » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:36 am

Grumpy David wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Tomous wrote:Not sure I've asked this before but I'm finally getting my gooseberry fool together-what's the best way of investing in index funds?

I want to use the £20k ISA allowance and put it in some index fund where it can sit for the long-term and tick along nicely.

What are the best online portals to do this through? Obviously looking for as low a fee as possible. Nutmeg is one I've been looking at.



Look into Blockfi. 8.6% on balances.

Use this ccode for $10 each:-

https://blockfi.com/?ref=958e20e9


Doesn't seem to fit the criteria of:

    Being able to use the ISA allowance

    Being an Index Tracker


If low fees are a high priority (which they should be for an index tracker) then Vanguard's trackers are amongst the cheapest and their platform (website) is the cheapest place to purchase them.

There are some HSBC and Blackrock funds which are low cost too but I'm particularly keen on Vanguard because it operates as a mutual (think the difference between a building society and a bank).

With index trackers, my personal preference is for maximum diversification. If I'm unable to find the needle in the haystack, I'll just buy the haystack.

The portfolio data drop down shows the geographical split, industry split etc. It just buys the market "as is".
https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-global-all-cap-index-fund-gbp-acc/overview

I'm not a particular fan of Nutmeg because I hold it to a higher standard i.e. A cool fintech company should be out competing most funds but their charges are actually quite high for what the product actually is.



Yeah true, but why put it in an ISA that will perform miles worse than the blockfi accounts, despite it being tax free? The same logic for the index tracker. It was just a suggestion to use a better source of income/interest. And there's loads of them now - crypto.com, blockfi, nexo, wirex etc. people need to be moving away from these poorly peforming low interest bank accounts, ISA's, trackers etc. The banking system will be dead in 5 years unless they treat their customers fairly, like these new starters are. They've raised the bar massively. Debit/credit cards and loans are next for these institutions.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Grumpy David » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:30 am

pjbetman wrote:
Grumpy David wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Tomous wrote:Not sure I've asked this before but I'm finally getting my gooseberry fool together-what's the best way of investing in index funds?

I want to use the £20k ISA allowance and put it in some index fund where it can sit for the long-term and tick along nicely.

What are the best online portals to do this through? Obviously looking for as low a fee as possible. Nutmeg is one I've been looking at.



Look into Blockfi. 8.6% on balances.

Use this ccode for $10 each:-

https://blockfi.com/?ref=958e20e9


Doesn't seem to fit the criteria of:

    Being able to use the ISA allowance

    Being an Index Tracker



Yeah true, but why put it in an ISA that will perform miles worse than the blockfi accounts, despite it being tax free? The same logic for the index tracker. It was just a suggestion to use a better source of income/interest. And there's loads of them now - crypto.com, blockfi, nexo, wirex etc. people need to be moving away from these poorly peforming low interest bank accounts, ISA's, trackers etc. The banking system will be dead in 5 years unless they treat their customers fairly, like these new starters are. They've raised the bar massively. Debit/credit cards and loans are next for these institutions.


My S&S ISA has from June 2018 to January 2021 returned 55% and I'm willing to post the screenshot if not believed. That's a tax free return too due to the ISA wrapper and that's from holding during the lockdown market crash last March when it went to minus 20%. And being a regulated company it has the FSCS and Financial Ombudsman consumer protections you'd expect.

Blockfi is “high interest” because it’s not a savings account and it’s not a bank - it’s some random company offering high interest to get your money. "If it sounds too good to be true..."

If (when) they go broke your money is gone.

When they get hacked like other crypto sites have done, your money is gone.

When exposed as the largest fraud since Enron or Bitconnect, your money is gone.

If you want to gamble on it, ok, but this is an incalculably high risk product and should be treated as such.

Peer to peer finance sites like Ratesetter have far more risk than people realise and can be far less liquid than people expect them to be and especially when they need them to be. Lending your money out to low credit scoring clients is high risk lending. If the bank won't lend the client money because of failing to meet either/both affordability / credit scoring requirements then why should you want to take such a risk? Do you trust these Meme companies to do sufficient KYC and DD on their prospective clients?

I've a high risk tolerance for investing but this is the sort of thing thing that belongs in the 95/5 ratio (and arguably not even in the 5). 95% of your savings into normal index trackers etc and 5% into the "fun" activity of stock picking or crypto currency (to hold).

There's also no chance that your 5 year prediction comes true. Crypto sucks for use as a currency, it's way too volatile (and slow) for use in day to day expenditure or as a way to borrow on a loan or credit card.

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Dual
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Dual » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:12 am

That blockfi looks dodgy as strawberry float man :lol:

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Grumpy David » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:15 am


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Dual
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Dual » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:24 am

You guys should be investing in OneCoin. Huge returns. It's going to be the biggest crypto currency.

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That's not a growth
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by That's not a growth » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:25 am

Not a chance banks will be dead in 5 years, and saying so just makes you sound naive and uninformed - or at worst deliberately trying to misinform people so you get more referral money.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Rocsteady » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:41 pm

Is that a Vangaurd S & S ISA you got those returns from GD? Which one specifically? Think I can up my risk profile a little from next tax year..

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Curls
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Curls » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:28 pm

Dual wrote:You guys should be investing in OneCoin. Huge returns. It's going to be the biggest crypto currency.


Isn't OneCoin a pyramid scheme?

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Grumpy David » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:59 pm

Rocsteady wrote:Is that a Vangaurd S & S ISA you got those returns from GD? Which one specifically? Think I can up my risk profile a little from next tax year..


Yeah it's the FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund - Accumulation:

https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-ftse-global-all-cap-index-fund-gbp-acc/overview

Slightly confusing to have the FTSE name as you might think it's just the UK FTSE 100, but it's a globally diversified index tracker in large cap, mid cap and small cap companies.

It just buys the market "as is" rather than something like the Lifestrategy products which overweights the UK index (by market cap it would be about 5% of the global stock market but the LS product makes it 20% of the total shares).

60/40 equity to bonds will be less volatile than a fully equities portfolio but if you look at the breakdown of the fund, it does have a huge amount of diversity as it contains over 6,000 different companies, in all the different geographical areas and industries.

Last edited by Grumpy David on Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pjbetman
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Joined in 2017

PostRe: The Money Thread...
by pjbetman » Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:59 pm

Grumpy David wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Grumpy David wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Tomous wrote:Not sure I've asked this before but I'm finally getting my gooseberry fool together-what's the best way of investing in index funds?

I want to use the £20k ISA allowance and put it in some index fund where it can sit for the long-term and tick along nicely.

What are the best online portals to do this through? Obviously looking for as low a fee as possible. Nutmeg is one I've been looking at.



Look into Blockfi. 8.6% on balances.

Use this ccode for $10 each:-

https://blockfi.com/?ref=958e20e9


Doesn't seem to fit the criteria of:

    Being able to use the ISA allowance

    Being an Index Tracker



Yeah true, but why put it in an ISA that will perform miles worse than the blockfi accounts, despite it being tax free? The same logic for the index tracker. It was just a suggestion to use a better source of income/interest. And there's loads of them now - crypto.com, blockfi, nexo, wirex etc. people need to be moving away from these poorly peforming low interest bank accounts, ISA's, trackers etc. The banking system will be dead in 5 years unless they treat their customers fairly, like these new starters are. They've raised the bar massively. Debit/credit cards and loans are next for these institutions.


My S&S ISA has from June 2018 to January 2021 returned 55% and I'm willing to post the screenshot if not believed. That's a tax free return too due to the ISA wrapper and that's from holding during the lockdown market crash last March when it went to minus 20%. And being a regulated company it has the FSCS and Financial Ombudsman consumer protections you'd expect.

Blockfi is “high interest” because it’s not a savings account and it’s not a bank - it’s some random company offering high interest to get your money. "If it sounds too good to be true..."

If (when) they go broke your money is gone.

When they get hacked like other crypto sites have done, your money is gone.

When exposed as the largest fraud since Enron or Bitconnect, your money is gone.

If you want to gamble on it, ok, but this is an incalculably high risk product and should be treated as such.

Peer to peer finance sites like Ratesetter have far more risk than people realise and can be far less liquid than people expect them to be and especially when they need them to be. Lending your money out to low credit scoring clients is high risk lending. If the bank won't lend the client money because of failing to meet either/both affordability / credit scoring requirements then why should you want to take such a risk? Do you trust these Meme companies to do sufficient KYC and DD on their prospective clients?

I've a high risk tolerance for investing but this is the sort of thing thing that belongs in the 95/5 ratio (and arguably not even in the 5). 95% of your savings into normal index trackers etc and 5% into the "fun" activity of stock picking or crypto currency (to hold).

There's also no chance that your 5 year prediction comes true. Crypto sucks for use as a currency, it's way too volatile (and slow) for use in day to day expenditure or as a way to borrow on a loan or credit card.


Haha fair enough.....i didnt realise blockfi wasnt insured - it kind of plays around the issue of security, using Gemini...which i'm not sure about, but seems legit. Regulation will happen in this sector, just because it isn't FCA regulated doesn't necessarily mean your funds are at risk. But this isnt an area that i know much about.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by stating that you made 55% then lost 20%. That doesn't seem very stable. Bitcoin has outpeformed that by many orders of magnitude. In June 2018 it was $6189, now it's about $33k. Approx 500% increase. I bet you your fund will struggle over the next 2 years, and most of that 55% will be completely gone, we're heading into the biggest recession in our lifetime. And a lot of people and institutional investors will be hedging into btc. I think the perception of bitcoin being risky, unstable is a very outdated viewpoint.

Bitcoin is also much much quicker when sending international transfers. My bank takes 2-4 days to action a payment to an international bank/institution. Bitcoin does it in less than an hour. I agree though, you're unlikely to be able to pay for a coffee on the fly with it......at the moment, but these issues will be ironed out, it's evolvng very quickly.

Listen, i'm not trying to argue with you, i'm just pointing out issues i see with traditional investments. You clearly know lot more than i do on the subject of finance, and i respect that.

pjbetman
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Joined in 2017

PostRe: The Money Thread...
by pjbetman » Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:12 pm

That's not a growth wrote:Not a chance banks will be dead in 5 years, and saying so just makes you sound naive and uninformed - or at worst deliberately trying to misinform people so you get more referral money.


I'm not arsed about the $10...i've earnt 7k in a week haha.

My motive is to get more people involved in it becuase i think the way banks are run is shocking and unethical.

Banks as we know them will be pretty much dead in the water unless they evolve to compete, which they will be forced to. The final nail in the coffin of banks will the regulation of crypto assets to an equal or better standard than the FCA regs. I cant see that taking more than 5 years to be implemented.

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Grumpy David
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AKA: Cubeamania

PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Grumpy David » Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:57 pm

pjbetman wrote:
Grumpy David wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Grumpy David wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Tomous wrote:Not sure I've asked this before but I'm finally getting my gooseberry fool together-what's the best way of investing in index funds?

I want to use the £20k ISA allowance and put it in some index fund where it can sit for the long-term and tick along nicely.

What are the best online portals to do this through? Obviously looking for as low a fee as possible. Nutmeg is one I've been looking at.



Look into Blockfi. 8.6% on balances.

Use this ccode for $10 each:-

https://blockfi.com/?ref=958e20e9


Doesn't seem to fit the criteria of:

    Being able to use the ISA allowance

    Being an Index Tracker



Yeah true, but why put it in an ISA that will perform miles worse than the blockfi accounts, despite it being tax free? The same logic for the index tracker. It was just a suggestion to use a better source of income/interest. And there's loads of them now - crypto.com, blockfi, nexo, wirex etc. people need to be moving away from these poorly peforming low interest bank accounts, ISA's, trackers etc. The banking system will be dead in 5 years unless they treat their customers fairly, like these new starters are. They've raised the bar massively. Debit/credit cards and loans are next for these institutions.


My S&S ISA has from June 2018 to January 2021 returned 55% and I'm willing to post the screenshot if not believed. That's a tax free return too due to the ISA wrapper and that's from holding during the lockdown market crash last March when it went to minus 20%. And being a regulated company it has the FSCS and Financial Ombudsman consumer protections you'd expect.

Blockfi is “high interest” because it’s not a savings account and it’s not a bank - it’s some random company offering high interest to get your money. "If it sounds too good to be true..."

If (when) they go broke your money is gone.

When they get hacked like other crypto sites have done, your money is gone.

When exposed as the largest fraud since Enron or Bitconnect, your money is gone.

If you want to gamble on it, ok, but this is an incalculably high risk product and should be treated as such.

Peer to peer finance sites like Ratesetter have far more risk than people realise and can be far less liquid than people expect them to be and especially when they need them to be. Lending your money out to low credit scoring clients is high risk lending. If the bank won't lend the client money because of failing to meet either/both affordability / credit scoring requirements then why should you want to take such a risk? Do you trust these Meme companies to do sufficient KYC and DD on their prospective clients?

I've a high risk tolerance for investing but this is the sort of thing thing that belongs in the 95/5 ratio (and arguably not even in the 5). 95% of your savings into normal index trackers etc and 5% into the "fun" activity of stock picking or crypto currency (to hold).

There's also no chance that your 5 year prediction comes true. Crypto sucks for use as a currency, it's way too volatile (and slow) for use in day to day expenditure or as a way to borrow on a loan or credit card.


Haha fair enough.....i didnt realise blockfi wasnt insured - it kind of plays around the issue of security, using Gemini...which i'm not sure about, but seems legit. Regulation will happen in this sector, just because it isn't FCA regulated doesn't necessarily mean your funds are at risk. But this isnt an area that i know much about.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by stating that you made 55% then lost 20%. That doesn't seem very stable. Bitcoin has outpeformed that by many orders of magnitude. In June 2018 it was $6189, now it's about $33k. Approx 500% increase. I bet you your fund will struggle over the next 2 years, and most of that 55% will be completely gone, we're heading into the biggest recession in our lifetime. And a lot of people and institutional investors will be hedging into btc. I think the perception of bitcoin being risky, unstable is a very outdated viewpoint.

Bitcoin is also much much quicker when sending international transfers. My bank takes 2-4 days to action a payment to an international bank/institution. Bitcoin does it in less than an hour. I agree though, you're unlikely to be able to pay for a coffee on the fly with it......at the moment, but these issues will be ironed out, it's evolvng very quickly.

Listen, i'm not trying to argue with you, i'm just pointing out issues i see with traditional investments. You clearly know lot more than i do on the subject of finance, and i respect that.


If you didn't know Blockfi isn't a regulated financial product then it's probably not the best thing to recommend to others.

You've misread and misunderstood the point of mentioning the ISA.

I was down minus 20% and went up to 55% (not the other way round). Tax free.

Blockfi promises up to 8.6% interest rate (all the dodgy products seem to hover around this near double digit interest rate so that alone raises an immediate red flag). Which isn't as high of a rate of return as I've had even with a collapse in global stock markets to impact those returns. I'm not saying its stable but compared to a lending system based on crypto currency and peer to peer finance that has no proper regulation, it is incomparable.

Blockfi isn't bitcoin which has been the best performing asset of the last decade but that doesn't make Blockfi or Bitcoin the most suitable investment for most people. Bitcoin is a currency that behaves like a commodity (and unlike currencies and commodities it's got a very strong incentive to never spend/consume but to just hold) with volatility that makes a 100% equities portfolio look as stable as cash savings.

There's probably an argument to have 5% or so in crypto currency if you're particularly keen to take a punt on it. The 5% of total savings can be YOLO money if that suits risk tolerance.

Bitcoin can't scale to replace visa or mastercard. It can't process enough transactions simultaneously for it to ever go mainstream.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_scalability_problem

I can see the appeal of bitcoin being a much higher percentage particularly if you live somewhere suffering hyper inflation like Venezuela or you have currency export controls on your money like in China.

I've used Transferwise to send money abroad and it's essentially an instant process. No need to buy bitcoin in pounds then send bitcoins to someone else to then transfer into their home currency and far less complicated too.

You can point out issues with traditional investment but it's worth remembering that these new services carry some potentially huge risks that make them ill suited to many people.

Last edited by Grumpy David on Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rocsteady
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Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Money Thread...
by Rocsteady » Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:39 pm

Great post.

Also +1 for TransferWise, I use it for tonnes of payments since I get paid in GBP but don't live in Britain. Saves me a ton of money and is really fast.

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