The official Formula One and General Motorsport thread for the 2021 season! Season finale live on Sky & Ch4 Dec 12th 1pm

[Vermilion]

I heard the explanation from that Masi I think his name is, race director? Anyway he said in the driver briefing it was made clear the track limit wouldn't be applied so harshly in the race, but completing an overtake off track was not allowed.

It probably would have helped had that actually been made clear to viewers during the race.

[Imrahil]

Seems quite straightforward to me. Overtaking by leaving the track - on any part of the circuit - is against the rules and will always result in giving the position back (or a penalty).

Track limits are entirely different. Each circuit has corners which can, before the race, be nominated as safe to exceed when driving uncontested.

The problem here seems to be in the language used by Masi to explain the situation. On this occasion, instead of clearly defining the track limit rules, he made it too vague. But it still has nothing whatsoever to do with the illegal overtake.

[captain red dog]

I heard the explanation from that Masi I think his name is, race director? Anyway he said in the driver briefing it was made clear the track limit wouldn't be applied so harshly in the race, but completing an overtake off track was not allowed.

It probably would have helped had that actually been made clear to viewers during the race.

Definitely. I didn't see the build up, but did they show the same thing as last year with the safety car and a helicopter shot clearly showing the track limits?

Part of the problem is, I think a sizable majority of viewers probably just tune in for the race start.

[Jenuall]

I don't think any sane person can have a problem with the overtake being deemed illegal - that much is clear and unambiguous. But ultimately the aim of the game is to drive an optimal route - if exceeding the limits wasn't faster then Hamilton wouldn't have been doing it so I don't see how it can't be considered as gaining a lasting advantage

[Victor Mildew]

Nobody watching gave a toss about it, until Max handed a position back, they didn't understand the difference between the two and then go in to full Hamilton bashing mode. There's video of every single driver using that turn in that way, max included, he just wasn't going off as far until the team told him he could use it more. You don't see people going ON MY GOD MAX WAS ONLY THAT CLOSE BECAUSE OF TRACK LIMITS!! A pass off track is a slam dunk penalty and max gave the position back there as doing so where he could just slip stream and take the place back would have also been a penalty (like Hamilton got for doing that on Kimi at spa).

[Vermilion]

I heard the explanation from that Masi I think his name is, race director? Anyway he said in the driver briefing it was made clear the track limit wouldn't be applied so harshly in the race, but completing an overtake off track was not allowed.

It probably would have helped had that actually been made clear to viewers during the race.

Definitely. I didn't see the build up, but did they show the same thing as last year with the safety car and a helicopter shot clearly showing the track limits?

Part of the problem is, I think a sizable majority of viewers probably just tune in for the race start.

I watch the C4 highlights, and not once was the issue clarified during the show as far as i can remember, there was a brief discussion over consistency of the rules, but the whole 'running wide ok, but no passing' was not mentioned.

[Pancake]

Nobody watching gave a toss about it, until Max handed a position back, they didn't understand the difference between the two and then go in to full Hamilton bashing mode. There's video of every single driver using that turn in that way, max included, he just wasn't going off as far until the team told him he could use it more. You don't see people going ON MY GOD MAX WAS ONLY THAT CLOSE BECAUSE OF TRACK LIMITS!! A pass off track is a slam dunk penalty and max gave the position back there as doing so where he could just slip stream and take the place back would have also been a penalty (like Hamilton got for doing that on Kimi at spa).

Agree completely, Horner absolutely loves a protest and he didn't give it a second thought, tells you everything.

I also agree that it was not very well explained during the coverage, perhaps they didn't have all the information at the time.

[Neo Cortex]

I do appreciate the irony though that if Max/Red Bull had just shut up about the corner they may have gotten away with it.

[Robbo-92]

I do appreciate the irony though that if Max/Red Bull had just shut up about the corner they may have gotten away with it.

Hamilton would have (rightly) complained on the radio that he overtook him off track, leading to a 5 or 10 second time penalty to be added post race, of course Max might have had enough pace to pull the lead needed to still win but who knows.

[Neo Cortex]

I do appreciate the irony though that if Max/Red Bull had just shut up about the corner they may have gotten away with it.

Hamilton would have (rightly) complained on the radio that he overtook him off track, leading to a 5 or 10 second time penalty to be added post race, of course Max might have had enough pace to pull the lead needed to still win but who knows.

I think Max used his tyres up in that move, he had been pushing them harder due to how much fresher they were. And by the point of the overtake the degradation was about equal. After he just didn't have enough left.

[captain red dog]

I think Max probably got the best he could out of those tyres. He didn't close up as fast as I was expecting, so he knew he had to save rubber. I think the laps following Lewis just took all the remaining life out of them, and his trip wide and the slide a lap later was just game over. I don't think he was outsmarted or out driven. He deserves as much credit as Lewis.

I think Red Bull were just undone with the first undercut, and probably slightly surprised that Merc were faster in race trim than they were expecting.

Having seen how Red Bull go, I expect them to be a bit more ruthless in the next two races, but Merc have another 3 weeks to improve the car so it looks nicely poised.

[Imrahil]

I think that's what a driver like Hamilton gives you - he just maximises everything all the time, even when he's at a disadvantage, so he dragged every ounce of pace out of that car in the first stint to somehow stay within a couple of seconds. Whereas Bottas couldn't keep up.

[Robbo-92]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vers ... 23/?nrt=54

This gave me a chuckle

[floydfreak]

[Victor Mildew]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-smash-hamilton-mercedes-piquet/6005123/?nrt=54

This gave me a chuckle

I saw that, what a load of gooseberry fool.

The only thing his son ever smashed was his Renault in to a wall on purpose.

[Imrahil]

Isn't Max going out with Piquet's daughter too?

No ulterior motive for these comments then.

[Robbo-92]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/verstappen-smash-hamilton-mercedes-piquet/6005123/?nrt=54

This gave me a chuckle

I saw that, what a load of gooseberry fool.

The only thing his son ever smashed was his Renault in to a wall on purpose.

Think my highlight was him saying Bottas, while still not good enough is better than Rosberg

Isn't Max going out with Piquet's daughter too?

No ulterior motive for these comments then.

Is he? Thought she was dating and subsequently had a kid with Kyvat?

[Imrahil]

Yep, she split up with Kyvat and is now dating Verstappen.

[Neo Cortex]

Gotta keep it in the Red Bull Academy.

[Vermilion]

Ordered another 2021 F1 cap today, gonna get a Max Verstappen one, never actually bought a Red Bull cap before.