The Outer Worlds (Obsidian)

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by OrangeRKN » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:26 pm

Disguises sounds like a cool expansion of the way you could wear faction armour in New Vegas

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Monkey Man » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:34 am

Announced for Switch, will be released after the other versions -


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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:51 am

Just read the RPS review and this inparticular is worrisome:

“To be fair, we do try to provide both viewpoints,” he said. “At the start you’re rescued by someone who’s very anti-corporate, but then you go through a town that’s still owned by a corporation. Those people talk about the benefits of that and how cool life is, and you can flip sides and start supporting them instead.”


Cool Corporate life certainly deserves as much representation as, you know, not being owned. Proper eyeroll. This alongside one of the narrative lead's declarations that the game won't be 'political' is a real concern for me.

Taking a side isn't a bad thing. It's amazing* that most AAA games don't understand** this.

*Not at all surprising
**have been told not to understand

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by captain red dog » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:29 am

Well a staple of the Fallout games is making decisions that usually always have a little bit of a shade of grey. I can't get too upset over that when Fallout 3 had you nuke an entire town because some real estate mogal wanted a better view!

Its good to have choice, if you hate corporatism then you would side against them, if you want to be a bad guy you can join them.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:39 am

For taking a side to have value you do also have to present a world in which more than one side exists.

This could be a good example of world building to add weight to future actions and decisions... or it could be a bad example of the game just sitting on the fence and saying "meh, it's all basically the same"

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:39 am

That's the argument of the narrative team and I can see that perspective. But giving the player a choice doesn't mean the game has to tow a centrist line.

Look at The Master in Fallout 1 (spoilers for that game follow). At the start he's a tyrant willing to kill everyone in order to propagate his Super Mutants. By the end you've learned he was a scientist determined to protect the human race by adapting them to their new environment and the Mutants were the result. But although the game allows you to empathise with him, it never presents him as anything other than the villain.

In the final encounter you can famously talk him to death, using evidence of his Mutant's sterility to force a mirror on his insanity. But even though he himself ends his own reign, he's still the villain. You can even decide to join him, but the game then ends with you being horribly transformed into a Super Mutant. He's still the villain.

Games can strive to say something about the world while offering the player a choice with how to interact with this. What worries me, and it is just a worry for the moment, is that Outer Worlds is actively trying to say nothing in order to please everyone.

Jenuall wrote:For taking a side to have value you do also have to present a world in which more than one side exists.


But the value judgement on both sides does not have to be equal.

This could be a good example of world building to add weight to future actions and decisions... or it could be a bad example of the game just sitting on the fence and saying "meh, it's all basically the same"


Yup, that's why I mentioned the narrative lead claiming the game wouldn't be "politically charged". Alarms bells be ringing.

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-outer-world ... y-charged/

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:45 am

Tafdolphin wrote:That's the argument of the narrative team and I can see that perspective. But giving the player a choice doesn't mean the game has to tow a centrist line.

Look at The Master in Fallout 1 (spoilers for that game follow). At the start he's a tyrant willing to kill everyone in order to propagate his Super Mutants. By the end you've learned he was a scientist determined to protect the human race by adapting them to their new environment and the Mutants were the result. But although the game allows you to empathise with him, it never presents him as anything other than the villain.

In the final encounter you can famously talk him to death, using evidence of his Mutant's sterility to force a mirror on his insanity. But even though he himself ends his own reign, he's still the villain. You can even decide to join him, but the game then ends with you being horribly transformed into a Super Mutant. He's still the villain.

Games can strive to say something about the world while offering the player a choice with how to interact with this. What worries me, and it is just a worry for the moment, is that Outer Worlds is actively trying to say nothing in order to please everyone.

Jenuall wrote:For taking a side to have value you do also have to present a world in which more than one side exists.


But the value judgement on both sides does not have to be equal.


Indeed, but I don't think we know enough to say whether that's what is happening here do we?

I agree it is a cause for concern, they could have judged this quite poorly. I'm going to wait and see what the prevailing view is on release.

EDIT: I'm going to go and actually read that article now!

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:46 am

Again, like I say it's a worry rather than a criticism at the mo. We'll see. Obsidian are still almost unchallenged in their writing and design so that affords them a certain level of trust.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:07 am

One of the E3 video interviews had this come up, the dev explained that anti-corp was the default but it was possible if you wanted to switch sides to the corps. Didn't sound at all like they weren't taking a stance, the game still seems very anti-corporation. I mean you could join Caeser's Legion in New Vegas, I imagine it'll be like that. (None of the New Vegas factions are really "good" but the Legion is definitely the worst.)

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:23 am

Caesar is an interesting one for sure. I still think New Vegas has something to say about him, even if you are allowed to chose that route. He'll go on about his theories of unification and total war but is still, underneath all his bluster, a bullshitter:

For all his eloquence and powerful rhetoric, Caesar is ultimately a fraud, his mighty empire based on a lie. Most members of the Legion, excluding some of the most trusted men, are oblivious to the fact that the Legion's culture is based on books about ancient Rome - they believe that all of the customs enforced by Caesar were dictated to him by Mars himself. Any claims to the contrary are treated as the ultimate blasphemy by Caesar and his men.

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Caesar

The game is clear to present him as a monster, even after allowing you some insight into his thought processes. If you side with him you're clearly on an evil run.

If this is how they're dealing with the Corps here then I've no issue with that at all. My concern is if both sides are presented as equally morally viable:

Those people talk about the benefits of that and how cool life is, and you can flip sides and start supporting them instead.


Ah yes, that Cool Corporate Life.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:32 am

But like, of course there are going to be people who like that life. There are people who like being in Caesar's Legion. I think it would be a point of criticism in the game's writing and world building if everyone living under the corps hated it absolutely. In New Vegas, the courier personally does well and is rewarded for siding with Caesar. I imagine if you side with the corps in The Outer Worlds you will benefit and be rewarded for your service. I would also guess that you'll be sent on some pretty awful missions from a moral perspective to get there.

It all remains to be seen, but I'm not much worried by the above statement.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:44 am

That's not really what I'm talking about (moral validity out of game rather than in and the idea of games as political works) but it does all remain to be seen regardless.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by ITSMILNER » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:41 pm

Interested to see how Virtuos get this running on Switch, if it runs well it will be a guaranteed purchase from me.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - PS4, X1, PC
by Meep » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:48 pm

The most entertaining quest lines in the Elder Scrolls games are usually the ones involving the more evil factions so I'm not opposed to being able to join the other side.

Caesar's Legion sucked in NV, although this was because their part in the game was not nearly as developed as that of the NCR. Getting into the bad books of the NCR was probably the best way to make life difficult for yourself in that game as they were everywhere and so many of the optional quests involved interacting with them.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - Switch, PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:09 pm

https://kotaku.com/the-outer-worlds-is- ... 1836895032

The Outer Worlds doesn’t create something new out of whole cloth. It weaves familiar things from history and our current political issues together into something that allows you to understand yourself better. Even Heins said that he felt challenged by some of the points of view of different factions in the game, but the exercise of judging your reaction to differing viewpoints is what helps you form your own.

“There’s a quote I remember—I don’t remember who says it, but it’s like, ‘the unexamined opinion has no value,’” Heins said. (He may have been thinking of Socrates.) “If you’re just saying it because that’s what you’ve been told to say, then you’re a parrot.”


It's looking more and more like that 'not politically charged' quote was nonsense.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - Switch, PS4, X1, PC
by OrangeRKN » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:19 pm

Sounding great from that!

This is easily my most anticipated game at the moment

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - Switch, PS4, X1, PC
by Jenuall » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:23 pm

I think the earlier quote may well have just come from a misguided PR perspective. Saying your game is "political" at the moment is probably a guaranteed way to lose a whole chunk of potential customers - something they probably want to avoid!

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - Switch, PS4, X1, PC
by jawafour » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:24 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:...This is easily my most anticipated game at the moment

Yeah, I'm keen to find out more about this. I like the idea of the openworld gameplay.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - Switch, PS4, X1, PC
by Tafdolphin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:26 pm

Jenuall wrote:I think the earlier quote may well have just come from a misguided PR perspective. Saying your game is "political" at the moment is probably a guaranteed way to lose a whole chunk of potential customers - something they probably want to avoid!


Exactly.

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PostRe: The Outer Worlds (Obsidian) - Switch, PS4, X1, PC
by Monkey Man » Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:43 pm










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