The Politics Thread 4

[Hypes]

I think people should put on a proper suit, do up their tie and sing the national anthem

I am 100% liberal on that sort of thing. I couldn't give a gooseberry fool if somebody wears a suit and tie or if they bother with the national anthem.

You're exactly what's wrong with society

[Oblomov Boblomov]

Victoria Derbyshire show right now, they're going on about women's rights etc and this one just said in response to 'how do we break the glass ceiling?':

"As long as men are stupid and greedy then we won't see much change. It will always be there because it is in their DNA, it's built in for them to be bossy and domineering and always right, they have to have someone there to look down on and they have to have control, they're control freaks. It's like when they were hunter gatherers and they think they are entitled to have whatever they want."

VD is there in the studio laughing along. Thank you so much we are so grateful for being able to talk to you. The interview ends and she says "I am in love with that woman".

Those are all actual quotes by the way, I had to rewatch a couple of times on Sky+ because I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

What the strawberry float? This is why some men get pissed off with this. I can feel my feminist side shrinking into itself after listening to that. I'm not stupid enough to be swayed by one interview and I will still continue to be a staunch feminist but that has really wound me up.

[Lotus]

Never bother with categorising myself in a certain way, but to respond to this topic, I've just done one of those quiz things.
Apparently I'm 'strongly left-wing' and side mostly with the Conservatives, so make of that what you will.

I'm increasingly less and less interested in politics - I'm just sick of everything about it; the coverage, the pettiness, the tedium of it all. As such, as I don't post in here at all anymore really, or follow the news as much.

[Lotus]

Victoria Derbyshire show right now, they're going on about women's rights etc and this one just said in response to 'how do we break the glass ceiling?':

"As long as men are stupid and greedy then we won't see much change. It will always be there because it is in their DNA, it's built in for them to be bossy and domineering and always right, they have to have someone there to look down on and they have to have control, they're control freaks. It's like when they were hunter gatherers and they think they are entitled to have whatever they want."

VD is there in the studio laughing along. Thank you so much we are so grateful for being able to talk to you. The interview ends and she says "I am in love with that woman".

Those are all actual quotes by the way, I had to rewatch a couple of times on Sky+ because I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

What the strawberry float? This is why some men get pissed off with this. I can feel my feminist side shrinking into itself after listening to that. I'm not stupid enough to be swayed by one interview and I will still continue to be a staunch feminist but that has really wound me up.

I made a post the other day (can't remember which thread) about the double-standards, hypocrisy and contradictions of a lot of feminism/feminists. Prime example right there.

[Moggy]

Never bother with categorising myself in a certain way, but to respond to this topic, I've just done one of those quiz things.
Apparently I'm 'strongly left-wing' and side mostly with the Conservatives, so make of that what you will.

I think I make that that quiz is insane if it thinks somebody can be strongly left-wing and side with the Conservatives.

[Preezy]

I like to think I'm a pretty liberal person, but I'm only human so I do have my moments.

[OrangeRKN]

I like the idea of Socialism and Communism but they are entirely unworkable in the real world

We live in a socialist state

[Rax]

I like the idea of Socialism and Communism but they are entirely unworkable in the real world

We live in a socialist state

There are socialist aspects but I wouldnt describe the UK or Ireland as socialist states.

[Moggy]

I like the idea of Socialism and Communism but they are entirely unworkable in the real world

We live in a socialist state

To a Republican in the USA we probably look like a hard Communist state.

To a supporter of hard Communism we probably look like a nation of capitalist pigs.

There’s no real definition of what does and doesn’t make a socialist state, I think the UK (like most countries in the world) has plenty of socialist elements, but isn’t a proper socialist state. After all, even the USA has some healthcare provision for the poorest people and welfare for people who lose their jobs, but I don’t think anybody would agree they live in a socialist state.

[Rax]

Once again, what Moggy said.

[KK]

Centre to Centre-right according to these surveys. I hover between New Labour and Call me Dave.

[Lotus]

Never bother with categorising myself in a certain way, but to respond to this topic, I've just done one of those quiz things.
Apparently I'm 'strongly left-wing' and side mostly with the Conservatives, so make of that what you will.

I think I make that that quiz is insane if it thinks somebody can be strongly left-wing and side with the Conservatives.

It did make me chuckle. I wouldn't describe myself as strongly left-wing at all, but then I hate these categories because I don't usually fit into one.

[Moggy]

It did make me chuckle. I wouldn't describe myself as strongly left-wing at all, but then I hate these categories because I don't usually fit into one.

You say that, but I imagine that you are planning to seize the means of production for the good of the proletariat, while also planning to sell the NHS to Richard Branson.

[Hypes]

Never bother with categorising myself in a certain way, but to respond to this topic, I've just done one of those quiz things.
Apparently I'm 'strongly left-wing' and side mostly with the Conservatives, so make of that what you will.

I think I make that that quiz is insane if it thinks somebody can be strongly left-wing and side with the Conservatives.

It did make me chuckle. I wouldn't describe myself as strongly left-wing at all, but then I hate these categories because I don't usually fit into one.

You believe in free healthcare and education for all, except the poor and foreigners?

[OrangeRKN]

I like the idea of Socialism and Communism but they are entirely unworkable in the real world

We live in a socialist state

There are socialist aspects but I wouldnt describe the UK or Ireland as socialist states.

It's an oversimplification, sure, as its much more of a sliding scale.

The UK is often said (normally by critics) to be a "welfare state", and welfare is a socialist idea. It's the redistribution of wealth (either directly or through goods and services) to assist the less well off. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is pretty much what welfare funded by taxation is.

The NHS is a core part of the UK's identity, and it's socialist. Free healthcare for all, funded by taxation.

Health and welfare together are highly significant expenditure for the UK. They dwarf military spending for example. Add in the cost of education, pensions, and other such "socialist" ideas and its the majority of what the government spends money on. This image is a few years old but it's the first I found:



When 20-40% of the money you earn is redistributed by the state to pay for things like healthcare and welfare, I think that puts you quite far down the socialist road. That isn't to say we could be a lot more socialist with, for example, more state run utilities and services. But every time your bins are collected (or not) by the council, rather than you having to pay a private bin man directly, that's socialism in action. It's in a hundred things we take for granted, from bin collections to the minimum wage.

[Moggy]

But every time your bins are collected (or not) by the council, rather than you having to pay a private bin man directly, that's socialism in action. It's in a hundred things we take for granted, from bin collections to the minimum wage.

Things like that are technically socialism, but there are very few developed countries that don't have state/council run bin collections.

As I said before, nobody ever thinks of the USA as a socialist nation, but they have city/council bin collections.

[OrangeRKN]

But every time your bins are collected (or not) by the council, rather than you having to pay a private bin man directly, that's socialism in action. It's in a hundred things we take for granted, from bin collections to the minimum wage.

Things like that are technically socialism, but there are very few developed countries that don't have state/council run bin collections.

As I said before, nobody ever thinks of the USA as a socialist nation, but they have city/council bin collections.

Totally, it's basically a PR problem. I guess I get upset when I see the all-too-common statement that "socialism doesn't work in practice", because it's actually incredibly successful and implemented to varying degrees worldwide in probably every country.

Socialism is unfairly demonised. People will defend capitalism by pointing out how much it has done to improve the world (which it has!). I hear it said a lot less for socialism, yet the two go hand-in-hand. With capitalism alone we'd be living in some victorian hellscape.

[Moggy]

But every time your bins are collected (or not) by the council, rather than you having to pay a private bin man directly, that's socialism in action. It's in a hundred things we take for granted, from bin collections to the minimum wage.

Things like that are technically socialism, but there are very few developed countries that don't have state/council run bin collections.

As I said before, nobody ever thinks of the USA as a socialist nation, but they have city/council bin collections.

Totally, it's basically a PR problem. I guess I get upset when I see the all-too-common statement that "socialism doesn't work in practice", because it's actually incredibly successful and implemented to varying degrees worldwide in probably every country.

Socialism is unfairly demonised. People will defend capitalism by pointing out how much it has done to improve the world (which it has!). I hear it said a lot less for socialism, yet the two go hand-in-hand. With capitalism alone we'd be living in some victorian hellscape.

It’s just a problem with terminology. Socialism means different things to different people. Some people think of the evils of Stalin (or even worse Jeremy Corbyn) when they hear the word whereas some people think of things like the NHS.

I think describing the UK as a socialist state is a problem because we are only partially socialist. Sure it might be annoying to hear that “socialism never works!” as it turns people away from social improvements but it is equally dangerous to describe Tory Britain as socialist when it is anything but.

I don’t think a purely socialist state would work very well. I don’t think a purely capitalist state would work very well. A mix of the two is best and like democracy it is a terrible system, but it’s better than all of the others.

[Vermilion]

When it comes to politics, i'm usually more towards the centre ground, as i think there are good and bad ideas from both the left and right sides of the spectrum.

The problem i've often found with political discussions though, is a basic lack of common sense from the majority of people i've spoken to about the subject. I still recall the early days of ONM, where i would find myself clashing repeatedly with a group of individuals which were so far to the left, they made the guys who ambushed that Jacob Rees Mogg speech look positively normal.

My voting history is not particularly supportive of a specific party anyhow, as i've voted for both the Tories and Labour over the years (usually depends on the issues of the day). The last time i voted in a general election was 2015, on that occasion i chose Labour, but since then the party seems to have been taken over by some very unpleasant characters, and so were there an election now, i would likely vote Tory (Mrs May is the best of a bad bunch as far as i can see at the moment).

[Moggy]

(Mrs May is the best of a bad bunch as far as i can see at the moment).

I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you, but it shows the absolute state of this country if Mrs May is the best of a bad bunch.