The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Cuttooth » Mon May 04, 2020 9:36 pm

Tomous wrote:
Mafro wrote:I can't even bring myself to watch it again.



I can't even bring myself to watch it.


Probably will when it ends up on Disney+ at some point.

Looks like this is your "lucky" day.

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Tomous
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tomous » Mon May 04, 2020 9:37 pm

Oh. I wasn't paying attention :lol:


Or subconsciously trying to avoid it...

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Hime
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hime » Mon May 04, 2020 9:43 pm

I get people not liking TRoS but I don't understand how anyone can think this yet still think TLJ is not only good but one of the best Star Wars films. I know it became 'internet cool' to like it but it has all the same problems.

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Captain Kinopio
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Captain Kinopio » Mon May 04, 2020 9:46 pm

It's not that difficult when you come to the realisation that almost all the Star Wars films are bad.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Return_of_the_STAR » Mon May 04, 2020 9:47 pm

We still don't know what Finn wanted to tell Rey :x

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Hime
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hime » Mon May 04, 2020 9:51 pm

Captain Kinopio wrote:It's not that difficult when you come to the realisation that almost all the Star Wars films are bad.

It is when one is heralded as the pinnacle of sci-fi.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Mon May 04, 2020 9:58 pm

Hime wrote:I get people not liking TRoS but I don't understand how anyone can think this yet still think TLJ is not only good but one of the best Star Wars films. I know it became 'internet cool' to like it but it has all the same problems.

What? TLJ and TRoS are so completely different that this comment makes zero sense. I love TLJ but can at least comprehend the things that people don't like about it even whilst I strongly disagree with them.

The problems that TRoS has are so fundamentally different - it's simply a horribly put together movie. From plot to dialogue, characterisation to basic plausibility, nothing about it works. It's supposed to be the culmination of 40 odd years worth of story but it builds on nothing, pays off nothing and wastes every possible opportunity to do something good or interesting with these characters.

Jedi may not be what some people wanted but at the very least it's a competently put together movie!

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hime » Mon May 04, 2020 10:10 pm

Jenuall wrote:
Hime wrote:I get people not liking TRoS but I don't understand how anyone can think this yet still think TLJ is not only good but one of the best Star Wars films. I know it became 'internet cool' to like it but it has all the same problems.

What? TLJ and TRoS are so completely different that this comment makes zero sense. I love TLJ but can at least comprehend the things that people don't like about it even whilst I strongly disagree with them.

The problems that TRoS has are so fundamentally different - it's simply a horribly put together movie. From plot to dialogue, characterisation to basic plausibility, nothing about it works. It's supposed to be the culmination of 40 odd years worth of story but it builds on nothing, pays off nothing and wastes every possible opportunity to do something good or interesting with these characters.

Jedi may not be what some people wanted but at the very least it's a competently put together movie!

Off the top of my head:

Plot - Canto Blight arc, Rose stopping Finn, Poe mutiny, Snoke
Dialogue - Mum joke, feel the force,
Characterisation - Luke's character overhaul
Plausibility - Leah flying, BB8 suddenly being the size of an AT-ST 'head', the light speed jump

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Mon May 04, 2020 10:14 pm

Can't let yourself enjoy anything, can you?

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Hime
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hime » Mon May 04, 2020 10:15 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:Can't let yourself enjoy anything, can you?

What? :lol:

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Mon May 04, 2020 10:17 pm

Hime wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:Can't let yourself enjoy anything, can you?

What? :lol:


TLJ works. It's that simple. Johnson knows storytelling and he knows Star Wars and his is the best of the sequels.

Just let yourself enjoy it.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Captain Kinopio » Mon May 04, 2020 10:18 pm

Which one is heralded as the pinnacle of Sci Fi, and by who?

Are they even Sci-Fi films?

They’re just Space Westerns aren’t they?

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Hime
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hime » Mon May 04, 2020 10:25 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:
Hime wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:Can't let yourself enjoy anything, can you?

What? :lol:


TLJ works. It's that simple. Johnson knows storytelling and he knows Star Wars and his is the best of the sequels.

Just let yourself enjoy it.

Ok.

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Hime
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hime » Mon May 04, 2020 10:26 pm

Captain Kinopio wrote:Which one is heralded as the pinnacle of Sci Fi, and by who?

Are they even Sci-Fi films?

They’re just Space Westerns aren’t they?

Probably Taf to be honest.

I don't know, is Space Western a genre?

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Moggy » Mon May 04, 2020 10:28 pm

Internet cool :lol:

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Mafro » Mon May 04, 2020 10:28 pm

Moggy wrote:Internet cool :lol:

yeah 8-)

HSH28 wrote:Assmung you ever get one that is.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Peter Crisp » Mon May 04, 2020 10:39 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:We still don't know what Finn wanted to tell Rey :x


That she thinks Star Trek is better most likely.

Is Finn the lady? I can't remember :fp: .

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by LewisD » Mon May 04, 2020 10:50 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:We still don't know what Finn wanted to tell Rey :x


"Here love, I wanna smash your back doors in and get BB-8 to film it!"

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Jenuall
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Mon May 04, 2020 11:45 pm

Hime wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Hime wrote:I get people not liking TRoS but I don't understand how anyone can think this yet still think TLJ is not only good but one of the best Star Wars films. I know it became 'internet cool' to like it but it has all the same problems.

What? TLJ and TRoS are so completely different that this comment makes zero sense. I love TLJ but can at least comprehend the things that people don't like about it even whilst I strongly disagree with them.

The problems that TRoS has are so fundamentally different - it's simply a horribly put together movie. From plot to dialogue, characterisation to basic plausibility, nothing about it works. It's supposed to be the culmination of 40 odd years worth of story but it builds on nothing, pays off nothing and wastes every possible opportunity to do something good or interesting with these characters.

Jedi may not be what some people wanted but at the very least it's a competently put together movie!

Off the top of my head:

Plot - Canto Blight arc, Rose stopping Finn, Poe mutiny, Snoke
Dialogue - Mum joke, feel the force,
Characterisation - Luke's character overhaul
Plausibility - Leah flying, BB8 suddenly being the size of an AT-ST 'head', the light speed jump

I have no problem with Canto Bight, is it the greatest sequence in SW history? Definitely not, but it works within the context of the scenario established, unlike mecha-Palpatine, magic knives all, "sorry I can't translate the sith code for you so we have to reboot my memory even though there are a million simpler ways to solve the problem" and all the other bullshit we get from TRoS! :lol:

Rose stopping Finn? At the start when he tries to desert the rebels resistance? What's wrong with that? He's not the hero people want him to be, he doesn't want to die for a cause that he's not bought into, Rose is loyal to her core and just lost her sister to the empire, of course she's going to stop him running away!

Poe is established as a hot head, he thinks he knows best, has seen that the resistance have just been decimated by the first order attack on their base and during the massively failed bombing run. Add to that he's lost his leader in Leia and sees her replaced with someone he doesn't know or trust and who seemingly has no plan for what to do - how does him taking matters into his own hands (along with others who agree with him) and trying to rescue the situation not make sense from the perspective of his character?

Snoke? Literally have no idea what the problem is here plot wise?

Dialogue? I like the mum joke! It works well enough, is in line with the established character of Poe (practically his first lines when introduced in TFA are to take the piss out of Kylo's voice FFS!) and serves its purpose - to piss of Huxx and distract him.

Luke. I still have zero understanding of people's problem with how he was handled in this! What exactly is wrong? The guy has gone hermit yes but it's very well articulated why and the film takes him through a full arc of development relating to it. Also it's TFA that establishes the idea that Luke has given up on helping the resistance and dicked off to an island hidden away from everyone what was the TLJ supposed to do, have Rey turn up and Luke go "oh gooseberry fool, you guys need me!? I never knew! I had no reason to disappear and just hide here whilst you all died so now that you've come to get me I'll be right along to help!" :lol:

Yep Super Leia is gooseberry fool, no problems with that one - I don't think it's necessarily implausible though, SW has established elsewhere that force users can survive in space so it's not completely insane. The BB8 AT-ST scene is equally janky yep, but that's pretty low level visual stuff compared to the fact the core of TRoS doesn't fundamentally make any sense, whatsoever - I'll take a wonky size droid over a hidden super army of death Star destroyers that have been built in secret for 30 years any day! :lol:

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Dowbocop » Tue May 05, 2020 12:17 am

Hime wrote:
Captain Kinopio wrote:Which one is heralded as the pinnacle of Sci Fi, and by who?

Are they even Sci-Fi films?

They’re just Space Westerns aren’t they?

Probably Taf to be honest.

I don't know, is Space Western a genre?

I'm certainly no literary expert, but I tend to think that "proper" science fiction has to have at least some link to the time it was written and our race of humans on this planet. That's not a criticism of the quality of any works that exclusively feature non Sol System humanoids (perhaps some existing a long time ago in a galaxy far far away!) It's just that without the link to our world and time there's no logical extrapolation from the science of today, so it isn't really speculative "science" fiction or an alternative history, it's a story with spaceships and laser guns.

Star Wars both fits and doesn't fit both the sci-fi and fantasy stereotypes. You shouldn't have spaceships in fantasy, and you shouldn't have wizards in sci-fi. Space Opera is definitely a term that's been used to describe Star Wars, and I think that's probably its most apt genre, but calling it science fiction or fantasy (or both) is not entirely unreasonable.

In popular culture though it's thought of as science fiction, and ESB is widely thought of as one of the best films ever made. The IMDB top 250 (as a well-known but flawed yardstick) has ESB at 14 and ANH at 25. The Matrix is just below Empire, and the only speculative fiction films above them are Inception and The Dark Knight. None of these are comparable to Star Wars even though they are in the same broad genre net. Basically two of the original trilogy are regarded as the best films with spaceships in them ever made even after forty years of trying to better them, so I would say that puts them at the pinnacle of their field!


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