The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Robbo-92
Member
Joined in 2018
Location: South Yorkshire

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Robbo-92 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:38 am

Extended universe isn’t even classed as canon anymore is it? Not that it stops them being good books of course. I’ve only read a handful of the books though, don’t find myself reading the books I currently have anyway so getting more kind of defeats the object of buying them to read rather than sitting on a shelf just waiting to be read.

I just look extensively on Wookiepedia for all my (lack of) Star Wars knowledge :datass:

Image

Image
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:43 am

The old EU is now Star Wars Legends, essentially the equivalent of those What If episodes of Friends.

Doesn't stop Admiral Daala being bae though :wub:

Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by OrangeRKN » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:46 am

The old EU got turned into an alternate canon called "Legends", so they could have free reign over the new films with only the previous movies being considered new canon.

Unfortunately they then immediately started jamming a multitude of new EU material into the new canon, which to me seemed to ruin the whole "clean break movies only" approach they were supposedly going for.

What's worse is that the new films are the most reliant of the whole series on EU awareness. The old films stand alone and can be understood in isolation even with the old EU spun around them, while the new films are missing vital world building that has been relegated to supplementary material.

The whole thing has been mishandled.

"Nintendo fanboys are the worst kind" - gamerforever
Image
Image
Web - RedBubble - @OrangeRakoon - GOTY 2018
User avatar
Pedz
Twitch Team
Joined in 2009

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Pedz » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:47 am

The Next Generation is my favourite Star Wars show, tbh.

Image
User avatar
Pedz
Twitch Team
Joined in 2009

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Pedz » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:47 am

Well, that post was late :lol:

Image
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:08 am

Good things come to those who wait Pedz. ;)

Image
User avatar
Parksey
Moderator
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Parksey » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:16 am

Yep, I agree with OR about them relegating (or perhaps trying to hastily add) plot details to tie-novels and TV shows etc.

Nods to the new EU and it's assorted media are fine. But if you make a movie, it needs to exist and be judged as it's own thing. And as I said in my lengthy posts, I think the sequel trilogy has shat the bed on a few things, most notably how the Hell did we get into almost the exact same position as the original SW 30 years down the line, with Rebels against the Empire.

Stuff might have been explained in the books, but it's a massive failing if you haven't explained that satisfactorily in your movie. The idea that a movie needs you to read a coupe of tie-in novels is mad, sort of like how Halo 4 required you to read a book in order to know who it's main antagonist was. That's a big failing in your plotting if you have to rely on other media and another author to fill in your gaps.

Again though, I'll reiterate that they sort of made a rod for their own back by effectively restoring the status quo in TFA. They could have spun it out into a number of different (more interesting) directions.

Also another completely unrelated aside is, why the fudge did Abrahms stick that cliffhanger in at the end of TFA? Yeah it was fan-service but also meant that effectively the sequel had to carry on straight after, so TFA and TLJ take place over a few days. Then in the Skywalker trailer we get C3PO talking to Poe as if they are long time friends. They've only known each other a year!

They could have teased Luke in another way, and then had a time jump tbwfore Episode 8, like every other Episode has had. It would also appease the fervent critics who foam at the mouth that Rey has had NO TRAINING!!! as more time would have passed since her awakening.

The whole planning and execution behind these movies has just beenna royal mess and rushed to get some Disney Star Wars films out.

User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:21 am

Parksey wrote:Yep, I agree with OR about them relegating (or perhaps trying to hastily add) plot details to tie-novels and TV shows etc.

Nods to the new EU and it's assorted media are fine. But if you make a movie, it needs to exist and be judged as it's own thing. And as I said in my lengthy posts, I think the sequel trilogy has shat the bed on a few things, most notably how the Hell did we get into almost the exact same position as the original SW 30 years down the line, with Rebels against the Empire.

Stuff might have been explained in the books, but it's a massive failing if you haven't explained that satisfactorily in your movie. The idea that a movie needs you to read a coupe of tie-in novels is mad, sort of like how Halo 4 required you to read a book in order to know who it's main antagonist was. That's a big failing in your plotting if you have to rely on other media and another author to fill in your gaps.

Again though, I'll reiterate that they sort of made a rod for their own back by effectively restoring the status quo in TFA. They could have spun it out into a number of different (more interesting) directions.

Also another completely unrelated aside is, why the fudge did Abrahms stick that cliffhanger in at the end of TFA? Yeah it was fan-service but also meant that effectively the sequel had to carry on straight after, so TFA and TLJ take place over a few days. Then in the Skywalker trailer we get C3PO talking to Poe as if they are long time friends. They've only known each other a year!

They could have teased Luke in another way, and then had a time jump tbwfore Episode 8, like every other Episode has had. It would also appease the fervent critics who foam at the mouth that Rey has had NO TRAINING!!! as more time would have passed since her awakening.

The whole planning and execution behind these movies has just beenna royal mess and rushed to get some Disney Star Wars films out.


Not even that, surely. As you say TLJ takes place over the course of a few days or so (well, the main chase is over a number of hours. The Rey story is over a few days). Threepio may have known Poe longer as they were both part of the Resistance pre-TFA but he's known Rey and Finn for about a week, max, and spent very little time with them during that period.

Tbf, the blame is on Johnson here for carrying on immediately after TFA. Even with the cliffhanger they could have jumped forwards a few months.

Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:26 am

Do we actually know the time duration between TLJ and when ROS is supposed to happen? But yeah regardless of that it's certainly not long enough for a worthwhile attachment to have developed between 3PO and most of these characters!

Also I agree and have said before that hitting the galactic reset button to essentially put us in the exact same conflict as before is probably the biggest crime that TFA committed. Not only does it make very little sense and severely limits the scope of things going forward but it also retroactively undercuts the impact of the rebels victory in the original trilogy.

Hey, you know all those battles and hardships you faced to defeat the Empire guys, turns out it was worth strawberry float all, sorry! :lol:

Image
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by OrangeRKN » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:31 am

Don't worry I'm sure it'll turn out that Poe actually rebuilt C3PO as a child, so the heartfelt goodbye will make sense

"Nintendo fanboys are the worst kind" - gamerforever
Image
Image
Web - RedBubble - @OrangeRakoon - GOTY 2018
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:32 am

Rey's parents are Poe's brother and sister and Finn is a Calrissian and purple-haired Laura Dern was Princess Leia's handmaiden's sister's best friend in space high school.

For reals though they are absolutely going to cover Rey's parentage in this film despite the excellent curveball in TLJ and it's going to be a disaster.

Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Edd
Member
Joined in 2015
Contact:

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Edd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:35 am

Have Rey, Finn and Poe even shared a scene together in this new trilogy yet?

Image
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:35 am

IT JUST MAKES SENSE THAT EVERYONE IS CONNECTED! :lol:

If someone turns out to be a clone of some prominent character in the next movie then I am officially out.

Image
User avatar
Frank
Member
Joined in 2009

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Frank » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:37 am

Edd wrote:Have Rey, Finn and Poe even shared a scene together in this new trilogy yet?


They make a thing out of Rey and Poe meeting for the first time at the very end of the Last Jedi, so probably not.

Image
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:38 am

Also where the strawberry float have all these rebels/resistance people come from in the ROS trailer? There were like twenty people or something left at the end of TLJ! :lol:

Image
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by OrangeRKN » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:40 am

Tafdolphin wrote:For reals though they are absolutely going to cover Rey's parentage in this film despite the excellent curveball in TLJ and it's going to be a disaster.


Rey's parents are nobodies... but she uses the force to travel back in time and is actually Shmi Skywalker

"Nintendo fanboys are the worst kind" - gamerforever
Image
Image
Web - RedBubble - @OrangeRakoon - GOTY 2018
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Jenuall » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:45 am

There's been a hint at the truth behind Rey's true parentage hidden in plain sight all along. She was dumped on Jakku and that was significant because the name is actually an acronym for:

Just A Kenobi Klone Understand?

Image
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:48 am

This is Abram's thing though...he loves Chosen bloodline narratives and links into the past.

Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Parksey
Moderator
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Parksey » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:49 am

I heard that the time is confirmed to be:one year.

Which to be honest:

Is going to make all of the action in the sequel Trilogy feel a little insignificant. The small timeframe would have been much better suited to say, The Republic, being the ruling power put in danger by a First Order hell-bent on guerrilla tactics with a mysterious powerful leader (that could be Snoke/Kylo/Palps).


As for the lack of a time gap between TFA and TFJ, I dunno, I think Abrahms has to shoulder a lot of the blame. You can't have that cliffhanger scene at the end of TFA and then not show the audience Luke and Rey's first meeting. It's something the audience are going to want to see.

Obviously you could say that TFJ could then jump forward in time, though the fact that that are called "Episodes" sort of means each movie deals with a sort of specific period of continuous time, and no movies have a time jump within them. Though you could then say that Rian Johnson could easily have broken with tradition, given the surprises elsewhere.

I think it's just an example of how these films were never really planned out with any cohesion, between executives, between writers, between directors or between anyone. Surely anyone planning TFA would realise that it's ending meant the sequel had to pick up from exactly that point. Surely anyone writing TLJ had to realise that setting it over a period of a few days immediately after the first movie was going to make the universe and events within seem small and horrifically contrived. Surely anyone making the third film:

would have to realise that these two films would then make your "end of an era" film actually a closing chapter to a "sequel era" a bit longer than a human pregnancy.

A baby being conceived in the galaxy at the time of TFA (the threat of Death Stars always lead to a baby boom) would be, what, about 3 months old when ROS closes? Hardly a period of prolonged Galatic turmoil. It's not like Luke, who basically had only ever known the Empire


Like I said before, it's just all really awkward and ill-fitting. I have a feeling this is why ROS is being touted as an end "to the Skywalker Saga" rather than an end to the Sequel Trilogy and it's characters. You could say that that is a bit of a narrative crime, as you're admitting your own set of three movies isn't a powerful enough piece of closure on your own. And would explain why they seem to, again, be looking to the franchise's more distant past rather than the Sequel Trilogy's past, which, in its own Galatic terms, has lasted about as long as a footy season.

EDIT - Oh yeah, they are absolutely going to retcon Rey's parentage too. The same people who say she's a Mary Sue and unfathomably special, also seem to want her to be unfathomably special. In terms of being an actual character, Rey's more powerful as a nobody than she is as a Skywalker/Palpatine/Binks. It also has dramatic ramifications for the relationship with Kylo too.

User avatar
DarkRula
Member
Joined in 2018
Contact:

PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by DarkRula » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:24 pm

Just as we've been talking of needing to read the tie-in books to understand the conflict between the Resistance and First Order, guess what's more than likely going to be needed to understand where that new fleet comes from in the trailer? Yup.

"Resistance Reborn! Get your copy here! Understand critical plot points about the next film here! Resistance Reborn everybody!"

At least when the prequel trilogy novelisations were released I felt they weren't needed to understand the films, instead leaning more into using the Legends material to flesh out the world more. Each of the sequel trilogy novelisations so far have included quite a bit of background stuff to explain things that weren't in the films, leaving less room for actual world building as there's a lot of ground to cover in explaining the events going on.

Image
Image

Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: abcd, Blue Eyes, floydfreak, Google [Bot], Heskimo, KK, LightWanderer, Minty14, Preezy, Snowcannon, Somebody Else's Problem and 61 guests