The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*

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Call and Answer
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Call and Answer » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:45 pm

The Watching Artist wrote:But you've glossed over the points I made about Anakin.

Apologies for the glossy reply earlier, I was on my lunch break and thought I could knock out a quick one. Ahem.

The Watching Artist wrote:Those are events that are not specific to being a moody teenager, the desire to control/obsess/save loved ones could be at any age.

I agree, which is why I didn't identify that desire as being specifically teenage. I spoke more generally about the fear both characters have about their places in the world, a common experience through teenage years, and that they respond by lashing out against guiding forces (alternatively, against the norm/what came before to stand out. Alternatively alternatively, rebelling against your parents because they just don't get you, man).

The Watching Artist wrote:But it is at least a clear motivation for the character. He wants to do good because he loves someone and thinks he should be powerful enough to do that. Kylo though.... he wants to be bad because? Because he is teenager?

I touched upon it in my initial post, but for me the reasons are twofold; he feels betrayed by those he loved (at Luke because of his failure in training him, and at Han and Leia for putting him in Luke's care), and that he feels unable to live up to his parents and uncle's legacies. He feels the world expects something from him, when he hasn't even figured out who he is. He's alienated and turns to a source that says "it's OK, you're not wrong, they're wrong". It's targeted radicalisation of a vulnerable person, same as the young Western folk who decided to go fight and die for ISIS. And that vulnerability of his sense of self is most common amongst teenagers.

---

I haven't seen The Clone Wars or any additional material featuring Anakin so I don't really have a sense of him beyond the prequels, but as presented there in the primary text he is a bratty teenager. Lines like "from my point of view the Jedi are evil" are pure foot stomping petulance. It's not even that the idea behind that line is necessarily wrong or that there isn't a debate to be had on Jedi ethics, it's that the speaker doesn't care about that; it just reads as contrariansm for the sake of winding up the other party.

Not that having characters act like that is an inherently bad choice, it can be interesting to explore. The difference is how the surrounding film treats those characters. Anakin is presented as doing the right thing because his love for Padme is so strong (an equally naive starry eyed take), so you should inherently root for him despite him being a dick. Kylo is not lauded by the films, he's looked down on, and it encourages the audience to pity him which ultimately (I think) leads to a genuine care for the character.

I never said Anakin is a bad character, or even that the basic story beats he goes through in the prequels are bad. He is poorly realised however, and I think Kylo is a far better version of that basic role (given the structural similarities they share). Anakin done properly.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:33 pm

Anakin in the Clone Wars is a more nuanced character, and you get a much better feel for his descent towards the dark side, but where they left off at the close of season 6 still feels like a bit of a leap to where he is in RotS. This is, I feel, because the original plan was to have 8 seasons, and the last couple would really see him spiral down. That said, I'm confident/hopeful that the upcoming season 7 (it's not likely that there'll be more seasons made, this is the final season) will address that issue.

Clone Wars is worth the watch, for Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Hondo, Rex and so much more.


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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Preezy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:57 am

I still haven't got round to watching the trailer, I've seen the thumbnail of Rey with her massive forehead and vapid "focus" expression and just think....meh. They made such a mess of TLJ, and I still haven't seen (or intend to see Solo).

I just don't think I'm arsed about Star Wars anymore :(

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Oblomov Boblomov » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:40 pm

Preezy wrote:I still haven't got round to watching the trailer, I've seen the thumbnail of Rey with her massive forehead and vapid "focus" expression and just think....meh. They made such a mess of TLJ, and I still haven't seen (or intend to see Solo).

I just don't think I'm arsed about Star Wars anymore :(

Woah, woah. You are objectively (buzzword of the thread) wrong if you don't get a little tingle in your dingle at the sight of Rey in the opening scene of the teaser. Objectively!

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by DarkRula » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:24 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:tingle in your dingle


Am... I reading into that wrong..?

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Preezy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:26 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Preezy wrote:I still haven't got round to watching the trailer, I've seen the thumbnail of Rey with her massive forehead and vapid "focus" expression and just think....meh. They made such a mess of TLJ, and I still haven't seen (or intend to see Solo).

I just don't think I'm arsed about Star Wars anymore :(

Woah, woah. You are objectively (buzzword of the thread) wrong if you don't get a little tingle in your dingle at the sight of Rey in the opening scene of the teaser. Objectively!

Can't stand both her character and the actor playing the role. She's like a budget Keira Knightley, and I can't stand Keira Knightley.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hexx » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:44 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Preezy wrote:I still haven't got round to watching the trailer, I've seen the thumbnail of Rey with her massive forehead and vapid "focus" expression and just think....meh. They made such a mess of TLJ, and I still haven't seen (or intend to see Solo).

I just don't think I'm arsed about Star Wars anymore :(

Woah, woah. You are objectively (buzzword of the thread) wrong if you don't get a little tingle in your dingle at the sight of Rey in the opening scene of the teaser. Objectively!


:(

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Rose > Rey

Give Kelly a lightsabre in IX and it'll be the greatest film ever

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Hexx » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:18 pm

Frank wrote:Rose > Rey




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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tafdolphin » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:47 pm

Frank wrote:Rose > Rey

Give Kelly a lightsabre in IX and it'll be the greatest film ever


...

I'll allow it.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:49 pm

Even Taf is on board 8-)

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Preezy » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:57 pm

Rose is worse than Dexter Jettster. THERE I SAID IT

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Oblomov Boblomov » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:44 pm

Hexx wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Preezy wrote:I still haven't got round to watching the trailer, I've seen the thumbnail of Rey with her massive forehead and vapid "focus" expression and just think....meh. They made such a mess of TLJ, and I still haven't seen (or intend to see Solo).

I just don't think I'm arsed about Star Wars anymore :(

Woah, woah. You are objectively (buzzword of the thread) wrong if you don't get a little tingle in your dingle at the sight of Rey in the opening scene of the teaser. Objectively!


:(

:lol: oh gooseberry fool

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Frank wrote:Rose > Rey


Goodness me... this has to be one of the paths to the dark side.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:52 pm

I wasn't massively keen on the Finn/Rose romance (I'm all about that Stormpilot) but she was great :wub: She got more characterisation in one film than they've managed with "WHO ARE MY PARENTS" Rey so far all series.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:31 pm

There's an oddball theory going around fans about IX, Kylo Ren, Snoke, all that jazz. Spoiler boxed in case true.



Hmm, I don't know if I buy it, but I do like how it connects the trilogies together.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Tafdolphin » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:08 pm

Lucasfilm considers Knights of the Old Republic project

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/lu ... 203191706/

Oo-er

EDIT: Speculation now this is the Weiss and Beninoff (Game of Thrones show runners) project.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:51 pm

Maybe they'll make KotOR canon.

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Frank
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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Frank » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Love how she's like "we don't want Star Wars to feel like too much" when they're talking about two whole new trilogies of films :slol: that ship has sailed.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Gemini73 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:12 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:Anakin in the Clone Wars is a more nuanced character, and you get a much better feel for his descent towards the dark side, but where they left off at the close of season 6 still feels like a bit of a leap to where he is in RotS. This is, I feel, because the original plan was to have 8 seasons, and the last couple would really see him spiral down. That said, I'm confident/hopeful that the upcoming season 7 (it's not likely that there'll be more seasons made, this is the final season) will address that issue.

Clone Wars is worth the watch, for Anakin, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka, Hondo, Rex and so much more.


I concur on all points.

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PostRe: The Star Wars Thread v2 - *NO SPOILERS*
by Wedgie » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:17 am

Well if it turns out Palpatine is somehow manipulating the events in the previous two movies, it would be a total cop out as it looks like it was added in the last minute.

There’s no forewarning, no sense of someone else more powerful than Snoke.

That’s a bit IF he’s still able to do it. I still reckon it’s a recording.

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