The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Green Gecko
Treasurer
Joined in 2008
Location: Sussex
Contact:

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:22 pm

Today's query was about 3D carving an ear on a CNC mill. Of course they referred to their image attached. Then forgot the attachment. So I had to pretend I knew what I was referring to while discussing the complex ins and outs of machining a 3D shape out of a variety of possible materials, all while having no idea what this shape even is. The shape itself is the single and most paramount aspect of what work needs to be done, how long it will take, and thus how much it will cost.

They want to know how much it will cost.

Same old, I suppose.

♥ gaems | t: @GRcade | FB: GRcadeUK | YT: GRcadeVideo | Twitch: GRcadeUK
Image
pjbetman
Member
Joined in 2017

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by pjbetman » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:35 pm

That's not a growth wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
That's not a growth wrote:Bit of a rant

Rather predictability, work have pretty much said they're not giving me a payrise any time soon. I was told a month or so ago (and I was shown a whatsapp message between my manager and the CEO confirming this) that if a certain customer paid their bill then they would look at the raise my manager has requested for me (and I haven't actually found out yet how much this is actually for - which feels stupid as I type this out, but all the conversations were rushed in hallways, or similar). They paid their bill just before Christmas (and I was given a bonus (£100) for my work on the report that lead to this payment - before we knew the payment was made), and now this week my manager is saying the department is not making enough money for people to get raises and he wants us to work overtime at least twice a week for the indefinite future (potentially up to 6 months +) so we can complete some ideas he has for new products and marketing. This is 3 times in the last 12 months my manager has said I'm getting a raise for it to be knocked back.

He hasn't fully quantified what work he wants to be done, when he wants it to be done by, and why he doesn't think it can be done by then during regular hours - it's more a knee-jerk reaction that he's going some rough ideas of things he wants to do, and doesn't feel they're happening fast enough. But he just keeps piling more and more things for people to do, never weighs up the workload, and expects everything to be done 'now' - and if it's not possible to get things done as quickly as he wants then that's our issue, and we just need to work more.

I keep being given more and more responsibility, and the range of the type of work I do just keeps growing. I started off essentially being a project admin, and now run projects, oversee people, oversee the set up of products and services, assist in marketing and website updates, assisting with sales and proposals (and overseeing proposals built by others), assist with and help run R&D projects, and am trying to completely re-designing a CRM/project management/asset management/ticketing system tool from the ground up because we are essentially a business within a business and can't find anything that covers everything we need in a single product - and especially one that the CEO would be willing to pay for.

There is minimal high level strategy, and we just have to keep adapting to each new idea he gets, and I continuously get crap for trying to be "too organised / going into too much detail" - despite me proving with my most detailed, yet more praised, work (the report previously mentioned) that you need a lot of raw organised data to create detailed dashboards and reports for customers (the only bit my manager cares about, but he just wants to the front end to 'appear' - when he see me working on the back end he complains it's overkill).

He also just blindly dismisses work I've done, without looking at it. We're at the beginning of a large project and we need to inform the customer how long it's going to take. This is not a simple question, as it depends how many customers they get, and how many locations they want to roll out to. But it also doesn't scale uniformly, as an initial set up of a customer takes longer than adding to an established customer. So I worked out how long each section takes, then created a calculator so you can hypothesise scenarios (such as, Stage 1: initial set up, Stage 2, 1 customer, 10 locations, stage 3: 3 additional customers, 7 locations each, Stage 4, customer 1 adds 25 locations - etc) and it calculates man-hours for you, based on our early tests. As I tried to explain it to his, saying I want to show him my working (as he's the primary on the project) - so we can set the customers expectations - his response was "I don't believe you", and hasn't look at it. (He has informed the customer how long I think it would be - but again with the qualifier that he doesn't believe me)

But despite all this extra work I'm doing the department's numbers are currently flat on last year. But my job isn't directly sales - so I feel a huge sense of resentment that I'm being asked more and more, but my compensation is essentially tied to other people's performance (excluding that bonus I got last month). But we have grown in other ways, and I was the one to figure this out. It could be argued our department has grown 50% in a year if you don't include a problem account that we're likely going to court over.

Apparently I'm due a 1-to-1 with my manager (the first time in 3 years they thought of doing something like this - they're very unorganised as a company), so I intend to ask specifically what milestones the department and I need to hit for me to get to a payrise, and how much this payrise would be. Issue being, and the reason I haven't pushed it before, is I'm almost certain there wont be answers for these and it's always down to how the CEO "feels" at that time.

I'm trying to look for other jobs, but there aren't many around here (especially this time of year, it seems). I had two interviews in Autumn and didn't get them - one because I went into too much technical detail in the interview (it was a simpler job that I do now, so I shouldn't have got carried away), and the other hasn't given me feedback despite multiple attempts to get some. I'm currently in the Manchester area, and I have some family in the South East that keep trying to convince me to move down there but the idea of moving when I haven't got a job is terrifying, especially if I can't land a job now I feel it's going to be just as difficult down south (and I beginning to feel I'm gooseberry fool at interviews, partly due to the irregular style of my job doesn't lead well to answering interview questions easily and concisely).

So yeah, like I said, bit of a rant.


Do you get decent sick pay? Go off with stress. Or make an injury up (that makes it painful to do your job).

Or you need to get some things out in the open during your 1 to 1.

What does your contract say about overtime? Paid or unpaid? Im assuming it's unpaid, and they say 'overtime should be expected from time to time' or some shite to that effect. Tell them in that 1-1 that you're only contracted to do occasional overtime, and anything beyond that should be paid. If they push you on it, start causing you problems, document EVERYTHING, then go see your doctor. They cant sack you (legally) while you're ill.


I get SSP - so not worth being off.

Get get paid my regular rate for over time, but my issue is them trying to force me to do 10+ hours of over time a week - especially when expectations haven't been set, and they haven't explained why over time is essential.


Ah, i see. Well at least theyre paying you for it. However, as GG says, your holiday pay should increase as well, pro rata. If you work 50 hours per week, you should get paid 50 hours for each week of holiday. You can only go back i think 3 months on that, so if you want it you'll need to mention it now.

User avatar
Rocsteady
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Rocsteady » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:34 pm

Green Gecko wrote:Today's query was about 3D carving an ear on a CNC mill. Of course they referred to their image attached. Then forgot the attachment. So I had to pretend I knew what I was referring to while discussing the complex ins and outs of machining a 3D shape out of a variety of possible materials, all while having no idea what this shape even is. The shape itself is the single and most paramount aspect of what work needs to be done, how long it will take, and thus how much it will cost.

They want to know how much it will cost.

Same old, I suppose.

Why didn't you just get back to them and mention they'd forgotten the attachment?

Image
User avatar
gaminglegend
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: North East, UK

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by gaminglegend » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:18 am

Clarkman wrote:
gaminglegend wrote:Anyone had any luck of moving out of retail management into something else? I’ve had a few training manager interviews but to no avail.

I did a short trial course with an ‘expert’ who was supposed to help a group of people do this, but ultimately
the tasks/ideas he had were things I’m already doing and I felt a bit redundant. (Of course it was also to sell his course at the end)

I’ve multiple variations of my CV to factor in different skills for differing roles but after getting nowhere wonder if actually my CV is the problem..


What kind of roles are you interested in/applying for?

Here's some insight from someone who spent 6 years in recruitment, regarding transferring into a new career path:

- If you're applying for advertised positions, a vast majority of the time, recruiters will be looking for direct previous experience of equivalent roles, rather than thinking about transferable skills. If you're coming from outside a career path/industry, you should expect to be competing at a disadvantage.

- The most success comes from proactively researching the work histories of people who work in the roles/fields you want. Reach out to them over LinkedIn and ask how they got their foot in the door at the new business.

- Follow through on this logic by emailing companies/people you want to work for, whether they have advertised positions or not.

- Don't expect to continue a management level position. This is something you are likely going to need to be flexible on.

- Figure out how you're going to stand out. The high street is collapsing and there's an abundance of ex-retail workers looking to shift away. What is your USP? Is there something you're passionate about which will make you memorable?


Thanks for the advice. I did have a stint of recruitment a few years ago for 12 months. Whilst I enjoyed it and picked it up quickly, I found being stuck in the office quite boring but that could just be my team which was quite u sociable.

The problem is I’m not particular interested in what I do now at all, I love leading teams but happy to take step downs to that in a new industry. What I get the kick off of most is developing people, marketing and networking in my current job. Everything else I hate :lol:

Image
User avatar
Green Gecko
Treasurer
Joined in 2008
Location: Sussex
Contact:

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 am

Rocsteady wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:Today's query was about 3D carving an ear on a CNC mill. Of course they referred to their image attached. Then forgot the attachment. So I had to pretend I knew what I was referring to while discussing the complex ins and outs of machining a 3D shape out of a variety of possible materials, all while having no idea what this shape even is. The shape itself is the single and most paramount aspect of what work needs to be done, how long it will take, and thus how much it will cost.

They want to know how much it will cost.

Same old, I suppose.

Why didn't you just get back to them and mention they'd forgotten the attachment?

I did, that was the first point of my email and made it short because it can be embarrassing. I double checked the e-mail HTML in case something inline wasn't loading but nope. I grabbed their logo from their website and hypothesised roughly what they were looking for in my imagination, as that's something I can predict quite well. But they had some other questions like, will doing it in a few different materials increase cost, so I kind of folded some hypotheticals into my reply in order to further the query into half a spec along the way. Otherwise, it's a waste of an interaction really. I figure out a lot of stuff like that; can make for some long emails, but people on the large appreciate I am taking the time to actually think about it rather than giving them 10 seconds here and there. At the end of the email, I reminded them to confirm the image i.e. send it properly so I can formalise a quote based on what has been surmised so far.

Pretty old school Question > Blah > Clarify > Blah > Quote > Invoice > Scheduled Deliverables > Thing > Aftercare (if any) > Feedback

Yes it needs streamlining. Creative is an arse like that, I'm sure you know!

Anyway, my "work diary entry' is more about 3D carving an ear, which is a pretty weird request. At first, I was slightly taken aback by how unusual it is, but now it's turned into potentially quite a large job. It seems to be for some fancy London agency that curates music for glossy companies, so there's that. Never really know what I'm going to get in this line of work. Once it was a communications agency asking me how much to engrave a selection of chopsticks to give away at an awards ceremony! I spent ages figuring that out but people like to shop around and unfortunately had no reply on that one. We call this "shopping"; thankfully more often, people actually want the thing, but there are an awful lot of people fishing for lowest prices without really considering anything else these days, that's just the way it is (a phrase I absolutely loathe to use, because it implies nothing good can be made of a bad situation).

♥ gaems | t: @GRcade | FB: GRcadeUK | YT: GRcadeVideo | Twitch: GRcadeUK
Image
User avatar
Hexx
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Hexx » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:15 am

Hexx wrote:Currently annoyed with our office in general.

1) A lot of people are blaring away electric heaters under their desk. Now it's an old building and often cold, but they're wearing light cloths/blouses etc and then complaining they need a heater blaring away to stay warm. Dress sensible. Not saying 3 layers and a coat, but at least a warm top.

2) It's stuffy as strawberry float. No windows open and little circulates due to closed doors. Can we open the window briefly for a few minutes to get air in? NOOOOOOO they'd get too cold.


Back to my, the most important person's, moans.

Stupid person "I want to go into the staff room for lunch, so I've just been a put an electric heater in and on"
Me "Why didn't you turn up the thermostatic radiator? It's only on 1 out 5"
Stupid person "...well it's done now"

How do these strawberry floating people survive in the real world :fp:

User avatar
Cuttooth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Cuttooth » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:03 pm

If anyone here just given their notice without another job lined up before, has it helped or hindered your career long term? Are you happy you did it?

Just doesn't seem to be the 'done thing' here, aside from people in their early 20s who go traveling for a few months.

User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Jenuall
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:08 pm

Standard advice I believe is not to do it. It's easier to find and get a new job from a position of current employment.

Image
User avatar
Kezzer
Member
Joined in 2012
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Kezzer » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:26 pm

Cuđđoolph wrote:If anyone here just given their notice without another job lined up before, has it helped or hindered your career long term? Are you happy you did it?

Just doesn't seem to be the 'done thing' here, aside from people in their early 20s who go traveling for a few months.


I have done it once, and was unemployed for 6 months. I has not had a negative affect on my career long term.

Very happy that I did it as I was working all hours of the day for little pay. The only downside was not having a lot of cash due to being unemployed for so long.

Image
Image
Image

Check out the Digital Combat Simulator thread for some hardcore aerial combat! | Mumble | PCGT V | The Photography Thread
User avatar
Lagamorph
Member ♥
Joined in 2010

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Lagamorph » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 pm

Simply quitting without anything else lined up can also impact your entitlement to JSA I believe.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
User avatar
Tomous
I Pissed My Pants
Joined in 2010
AKA: Vampbuster

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Tomous » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:28 pm

I did it to go travelling (yes one of those) and it took me a long time to get a job when I came back (probably 15-20 interviews in various forms).

I then moved a year later and got the first job I applied for....

Image
User avatar
Cuttooth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Cuttooth » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:54 pm

Jenu-All I Want For Christmas wrote:Standard advice I believe is not to do it. It's easier to find and get a new job from a position of current employment.

I am absolutely expecting Mind Crime to come in and go "Oh no no no, absolutely not I could never employ someone who broke the rule of being unemployed out of your own volition". :lol:

User avatar
Frank
Member
Joined in 2009

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Frank » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:59 pm

I quit my job just before christmas (it was immensely well paid, but it was horrid). Thanks to a combination of dreadful project management and managers just hiding their heads in the sand and ignoring every issue when it was raised until it suddenly because THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT NEEDS SOLVING STRAIGHT AWAY a few months down the line, it just resulted in every day being immensely stressful (and it was a two hour commute each way which was also stressful thanks to the strawberry floating diabolical train service). Might have been a bad move in terms of my career, but I'm much happier not having to wake up at 5AM and getting home at 7. I'd have thrown myself in front of a train it I'd stuck with it.

Asked my manager before I handed my notice in if there was any chance of working from home considering my entire working life was spent at a desk in front of a computer, and he was just "no", so I wasn't going to stick around for a company that couldn't give a gooseberry fool.

Hoping I can at least fill any gap in my CV with working for myself, as I'm going to attempt to get a bit of a business off the ground over the next few months.

EDIT: Also yeah I am eagerly awaiting the Clarkman and Ob responses :slol:

Image
User avatar
Kezzer
Member
Joined in 2012
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Kezzer » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:15 pm

I feel that commute pain..

the only good thing is I doing need to do it that often as I am out of the country 50% of each month.

Image
Image
Image

Check out the Digital Combat Simulator thread for some hardcore aerial combat! | Mumble | PCGT V | The Photography Thread
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Jenuall
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:16 pm

Frank wrote:I quit my job just before christmas (it was immensely well paid, but it was horrid)

Think we've found one of our high end responders from the recent "how much do you earn?" thread. ;)

Image
User avatar
Zilnad
Member
Joined in 2019

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Zilnad » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:31 pm

Cuđđoolph wrote:If anyone here just given their notice without another job lined up before, has it helped or hindered your career long term? Are you happy you did it?

Just doesn't seem to be the 'done thing' here, aside from people in their early 20s who go traveling for a few months.


I did that a couple of years ago now and I'd cautiously advise against it. Took me months to find a job afterwards and it was always awkward having to make excuses for the gap when I went to interviews.

Of course, everyone's circumstances are different. When I left that particular job, my mental health was taking an absolute beating so it didn't even feel like a choice. Was either go mental or just get out and figure things out after the fact.

User avatar
Clarkman
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Clarkman » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:41 pm

Lol, the notion of 'rules' to follow is a bit of a joke to experienced recruiters.

The reality is, the talent market is all dictated around supply/demand + reputation.

Those with skill sets in demand can comfortably quit before they have something else lined up. Those who don't would be best advised not to.

If you're leaving a company with a huge reputation in their space, you will be much more employable than someone with the same experience coming from a smaller fish. Employers are easily influenced and very shallow.

The majority of sensible employers will claim they are open to flexible working, etc. even if the reality is that they rarely offer it.

User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Jenuall
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 pm

> Claims rules are a joke.
> Proceeds to list a bunch of rules

;)

Image
User avatar
aayl1
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by aayl1 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Cuđđoolph wrote:If anyone here just given their notice without another job lined up before, has it helped or hindered your career long term? Are you happy you did it?

Just doesn't seem to be the 'done thing' here, aside from people in their early 20s who go traveling for a few months.


I did it in September '18.

The job I had just started turned out to be incredibly stressful and I just wasn't supported in my role at all. Gradually my responsibilities were increased to the point where I just couldn't handle it, plus there was a lot of toxic "startup" culture ("we work hard and we play hard"). This pushed me to the point of having panic attacks so I just said strawberry float it and quit.

I then spent the next 9 months working on my mental health - never realised I actually had MH issues until that point so I am grateful for it happening. I just assumed everyone always felt like they were gooseberry fool at things, etc. and were just better at dealing with it. And my inability to deal with that stuff was further evidence as to how gooseberry fool I was.

Anywho I was out of work for that time mainly as my confidence was shot and I felt existential apathy toward working for the rest of my life.

Long story short I managed to pivot into a sector I thoroughly enjoy now (so nice to not be slaving away just so international FMCG brands can make an extra 10 grand) but I took a seniority and salary hit (partially as I wanted something lower-stakes to help me build my confidence again, and to work on my work-life balance).

I also had savings that could support me for about a year, so I obviously rinsed that and now have nothing to my name (but no debt either!).

So I'd just do a calculation as to whether it'd be worth it, factoring in your current finances, current happiness, what the job market's like around there, the narrative you'd tell about the gap on you r CV in future interviews etc etc. And don't underestimate the toll that being unemployed (especially off your own back) can have on your mental health.

All in all I'm really glad what happened happened as I am far happier now, but the job market in London is pretty good especially for my skillset.

All the best, dude!

User avatar
Clarkman
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Clarkman » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:53 pm

Jenu-All I Want For Christmas wrote:> Claims rules are a joke.
> Proceeds to list a bunch of rules

;)


Image


Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Blue Eyes, darksideby182, Gideon, Lex-Man, Lime, Miguel007, Saint of Killers, Slimgrady, Somebody Else's Problem, Squinty and 44 guests