The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
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Squinty
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Squinty » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:36 am

Moggy wrote:I've got a bit of a cold so thought rather than going into work I would try out the new "work from home" system.

The computer is working fine and I called in to tell my boss who was fine. Then I got an email from her:

, I don’t mind no notice for WFH today, however in ALL future occasions you will be asked to come in where you have not pre-approved this.

I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the process that was circulated to avoid future disappointment.


:lol:

I will be saving that email to refer to next week when she decides to work from home at the last minute, when her mate (who does the same job as me) calls in to work from home and when her boss hasn't bothered to come in for the whole week. ;)


The passive aggression vibe of that email gives me life.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:38 am

Squinty wrote:
Moggy wrote:I've got a bit of a cold so thought rather than going into work I would try out the new "work from home" system.

The computer is working fine and I called in to tell my boss who was fine. Then I got an email from her:

, I don’t mind no notice for WFH today, however in ALL future occasions you will be asked to come in where you have not pre-approved this.

I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the process that was circulated to avoid future disappointment.


:lol:

I will be saving that email to refer to next week when she decides to work from home at the last minute, when her mate (who does the same job as me) calls in to work from home and when her boss hasn't bothered to come in for the whole week. ;)


The passive aggression vibe of that email gives me life.

I just want to know what was before that comma that Moggy has left in as a tease.

Probably a bunch of flirty comments. ;)

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Moggy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:45 am

Before the comma was a moan about my Skype not being set to available.

I have thought about not working for a shitty company but moving on seems way too much effort. I have been here so long that I have become institutionalised.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Preezy » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:05 am

Moggy wrote:Before the comma was a moan about my Skype not being set to available.

I have thought about not working for a shitty company but moving on seems way too much effort. I have been here so long that I have become institutionalised.

Like the battered housewives in my children's bedtime stories.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by pjbetman » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:22 am

That's not a growth wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:Basically I quoted for 5 hours of back pay for the dicking around to get the customer to a point where I can actually provide a quote, as all I had to go on was about two sentences and a scribble on some lined paper taken on a mobile phone pointing into the corner of an office. So at least I know they have an office, in London, which presumably means they're not wasting my time. I know there's going to be a lot more to and fro so I've double that. But rather than charging properly for the consultation elements, I've paid myself what I believe to be a bear minumum.

Except we're talking theoretical pay yet as I've had no reply since Friday despite spending five ours answering questions and doing CAD/CAM with photoreal renders to get to that point. They did thank me for the render, but come on.

Everything else is down as £50/hr with a degree of overheads incorporated.

Machinists will generally charge 50-70hr and artworkers with my experience around the same. At a minimum.

But looking at it from a consumer standpoint it's not that much money for a sculpture. Anyway, hopefully something comes out of it as I'm spending the rest of the week on personal work that I may or may not sell. Just get fed up with how the corporates always end up this way and yet they can't produce a simple 3 or 4 digit figure for how much they're willing to pay for the thing that they've gone to trouble of enquiring about.

Should charge for roadmapping or preliminary work really. I don't do free samples anymore either.

pjbetman wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:What's your advertising like? Good following? Do you get many enquiries? What's your lead to sale ratio like? How are you targeting your client base?

It was only 10 hours at £9/hr I costed just to make sure I was getting paid for the work I've already done if purchase at all.

I used to earn £8 per hour in my first permanent role as a digital designer and online marketing manager :fp: plus IT manager so unfortunately these days you wind up very confused about what a reasonable base wage is :lol:. That was 5 years ago and I'm glad I got out as things won't have improved, in fact they practically ended without my influence.

I don't have a fixed budget for advertising, I do local trade events and exhibitions and hand out cards (that's untrue then, I'd say it's about £45 per month max). Google ads have very poor ROI for me especially as I get organic enquiries anyway through Google Local listings and SEO. I have a handful of regular customers so I need to do a lot more to bring old customers back. I had a regular client who went elsewhere because I believe they are undercutting and not sustainable price-wise, and they refuse to pay me just £4.50 per print on a provided garment as my lowest possible price. I even offered to restructure my business around VAT claims so that they could save 20% on their garment costs which was ignored, I don't think anyone else would go that far to make a high street business (it was supposed to be online only but they jumped into high street way to quickly and will probably fold within 6 months) viable for them.

I don't get many enquries. I've had almost nothing through in January and I've cancelled ads on my Etsy shop because whereas before that would bring in a couple of sales the same ads were delivering nothing for the past 40 days or so. The system changed where before you could choose whether to put money towards google clicks or just Etsy clicks. Etsy can act as a lead generator for custom orders "click here for a custom order just for you" etc. Now Etsy automatically attributes most of the daily budget within hours to Google clicks where buyers are speculative and wishy washy and purchase nothing, I already knew this so I used to disable that option. Now it's controlled algorithmically for you. But it's not optimal for the seller, it's to plese Google and get % commission to the Etsy platform on each click. The ROI is really poor there. Never bother with Google Ads unless you're willing to (a) constantly manage your keywords and budgets while anlysing daily trends (b) pay someone to do that for you, increase the cost and lowering the ROI or (c) burn hundreds of thousands per month in the either to get maybe a 5-10% conversion rate that you would get anyway if you optimised your site properly for search.

My conversion rate is probably around 5-7% online and maybe 50% in person. So it's not a sure thing at all.

I am not directly targeting anyone, so I need to get my gooseberry fool together in the marketing department really.

This one came through a mystery referral from a carpenter in the area who handed my card to someone else who works in London. They must have spoken to me or taken my card on the merit of some CNC carvings I had on display in November or December last year.

So all a bit "waiting for clients" and should have them banging on my door given the quality of my work.

Overheads are around £4-5k per year given I've only got £800 left to pay off on about £3k of capital investments, so it's tough to even break even at this point in real accounting terms, and in tax terms the only good thing about it is the pittance I'll have to pay in tax if I carry losses forward into subsequent years. But in real terms I'm barely existing, but given most business are vanquished my massive debts within months of opening, I'm not doing as bad as it sounds.

My reviews and testimonials are really good. Actually I need to dig some more out my emails, ask people to submit new ones to the website (a capability I've had for months but haven't taken advantage of) and perhaps put those directly on ads in local papers or run some low cost facebook or instagram campaigns etc. As an introvert it's all very difficult this sales stuff, even though, it turns out, I'm naturally quite good at it when I overcome my natural shyness.

I'm thinking about putting "seconds" on Depop and Facebook marketplace as well and just ignoring anyone who ignores the list price and the fact I'm an artist not your mate down the road who spends too much on credit cards to keep clothes for more than 30 days.

I need to do more inbound marketing as well as I'm really good at content, it's just that painful time of sitting around making social media posts and blogs etc. not actually making anything with my hands, which is why I created this business in the first place. Not to sit at a computer for 10 hours per day punching characters into a computer screen. But I suppose I have no choice.

I could go down the video content route and start building up a YouTube or Instagram video audience, as that can bring work too as it really shows your workmanship and craft to a wide audience. The downside of that is you are spending about 30% of your time making, 30% editing and 30% on admin. Believe me, editing is a drag.

tl;dr running a business is hard and no it's not all fun and games, you have to deal with tonnes of questions hanging over your head all the bloody time.


I suppose your 'closing' figures dont really matter as long as you're getting enough volume to sustain those so-called low figures. High end, bespoke, design/art stuff is high value goods, so even if it was 1% conversion, still manageable. The hardest part for me (and i've only been in business 9 months ish) is filtering out the timewasters, as 90% of people are completely unaware that a business costs are very high, and that's why the price is high, not because we are greedy. However, i'm just dealing with your local facebook user. You need to be targetting non-domestic customers. Have you tried Linked In? I'm seriously considering paying the £50/month to sign up for that and get access to the busines owners, managerial types etc., where money and business costs are accepted universally.


I might be taking you a bit too literally, but coming from someone who is part of a fair bit of business to business sales, just because someone is buying for a large multi national corporation doesn't mean they're not a cheap penny pinching arsehole who will question every line on a quote - especially if it's something out of the ordinary, so there's little competition to be compared to, or they're inexperienced. Also, some people / huge businesses are cheap, and always will be no matter how successful they are.

It's usually best to try and get them to explain why they think your quote is too, which normally means asking them if they've seen something similar somewhere else cheaper - it means you're comparing a tangible thing rather than just the discussion being about their general abstract idea of "value".

Basically, if they can't prove to you that they can get a superior product at a better price then just stick to your guns.


Yeah, depends on the business. There are plenty of companies who spend millions per year on refurbishment projects, and some of the wastage i've witnessed is unbelievable. They are paying tradesmen 800-1000 per week for 50 hour weeks, for months and months, maybe a year or two. My business is exterior cleaning which does have a lower percieved value or cost, so it's not really apples v apples. However, there are plenty of businesses and private individuals who are willing to pay £500-2000 for a few days contracting a specialist.

For example, the golf club im a member of have just spent 300,000 on basically painting decorating the clubhouse and some soft furnishings (carpets, curtains,lighting, upholstery). This golf club isnt that well off (as most golf clubs are skint these days), yet they see the value in getting profesionals in.

I dunno, it's not easy finding these businesses etc, but i try to stick to my guns and not work for less than a decent living. There's always someone willing to do the work for less than you, usually, but they dont last long because they havent the knowledge to work out their real overheads.

Maybe 80% of my leads are penny pinchers, facebook reverse auction types, but i just hold out for the good clients by standing out from the crowd with decent advertising, uniforms, public liability insurance, RAMS, T & C's. invoices etc

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Squinty
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Squinty » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:53 am

Computer log in is strawberry floated, so I've been doing absolutely nothing since I came in. Starting to get really bored.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:58 am

We had to apply some updates to all of our systems last night and things weren't quite working right this morning. I could just feel a few of the usual suspects itching to run away back home claiming that they couldn't work but unfortunately for them it was fixed too quickly! :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Peter Crisp » Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:59 am

Squinty wrote:Computer log in is strawberry floated, so I've been doing absolutely nothing since I came in. Starting to get really bored.


Try starting up a singalong as everyone always universally loves those.
I suggest Smack My Bitch Up!

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:12 am

Peter Crisp wrote:
Squinty wrote:Computer log in is strawberry floated, so I've been doing absolutely nothing since I came in. Starting to get really bored.


Try starting up a singalong as everyone always universally loves those.
I suggest Smack My Bitch Up!

Great tune, can't see it going wrong.

I mean there's only really one line to learn so it's not a hard one. :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:13 pm

pjbetman wrote:
That's not a growth wrote:
pjbetman wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:Basically I quoted for 5 hours of back pay for the dicking around to get the customer to a point where I can actually provide a quote, as all I had to go on was about two sentences and a scribble on some lined paper taken on a mobile phone pointing into the corner of an office. So at least I know they have an office, in London, which presumably means they're not wasting my time. I know there's going to be a lot more to and fro so I've double that. But rather than charging properly for the consultation elements, I've paid myself what I believe to be a bear minumum.

Except we're talking theoretical pay yet as I've had no reply since Friday despite spending five ours answering questions and doing CAD/CAM with photoreal renders to get to that point. They did thank me for the render, but come on.

Everything else is down as £50/hr with a degree of overheads incorporated.

Machinists will generally charge 50-70hr and artworkers with my experience around the same. At a minimum.

But looking at it from a consumer standpoint it's not that much money for a sculpture. Anyway, hopefully something comes out of it as I'm spending the rest of the week on personal work that I may or may not sell. Just get fed up with how the corporates always end up this way and yet they can't produce a simple 3 or 4 digit figure for how much they're willing to pay for the thing that they've gone to trouble of enquiring about.

Should charge for roadmapping or preliminary work really. I don't do free samples anymore either.

pjbetman wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:What's your advertising like? Good following? Do you get many enquiries? What's your lead to sale ratio like? How are you targeting your client base?

It was only 10 hours at £9/hr I costed just to make sure I was getting paid for the work I've already done if purchase at all.

I used to earn £8 per hour in my first permanent role as a digital designer and online marketing manager :fp: plus IT manager so unfortunately these days you wind up very confused about what a reasonable base wage is :lol:. That was 5 years ago and I'm glad I got out as things won't have improved, in fact they practically ended without my influence.

I don't have a fixed budget for advertising, I do local trade events and exhibitions and hand out cards (that's untrue then, I'd say it's about £45 per month max). Google ads have very poor ROI for me especially as I get organic enquiries anyway through Google Local listings and SEO. I have a handful of regular customers so I need to do a lot more to bring old customers back. I had a regular client who went elsewhere because I believe they are undercutting and not sustainable price-wise, and they refuse to pay me just £4.50 per print on a provided garment as my lowest possible price. I even offered to restructure my business around VAT claims so that they could save 20% on their garment costs which was ignored, I don't think anyone else would go that far to make a high street business (it was supposed to be online only but they jumped into high street way to quickly and will probably fold within 6 months) viable for them.

I don't get many enquries. I've had almost nothing through in January and I've cancelled ads on my Etsy shop because whereas before that would bring in a couple of sales the same ads were delivering nothing for the past 40 days or so. The system changed where before you could choose whether to put money towards google clicks or just Etsy clicks. Etsy can act as a lead generator for custom orders "click here for a custom order just for you" etc. Now Etsy automatically attributes most of the daily budget within hours to Google clicks where buyers are speculative and wishy washy and purchase nothing, I already knew this so I used to disable that option. Now it's controlled algorithmically for you. But it's not optimal for the seller, it's to plese Google and get % commission to the Etsy platform on each click. The ROI is really poor there. Never bother with Google Ads unless you're willing to (a) constantly manage your keywords and budgets while anlysing daily trends (b) pay someone to do that for you, increase the cost and lowering the ROI or (c) burn hundreds of thousands per month in the either to get maybe a 5-10% conversion rate that you would get anyway if you optimised your site properly for search.

My conversion rate is probably around 5-7% online and maybe 50% in person. So it's not a sure thing at all.

I am not directly targeting anyone, so I need to get my gooseberry fool together in the marketing department really.

This one came through a mystery referral from a carpenter in the area who handed my card to someone else who works in London. They must have spoken to me or taken my card on the merit of some CNC carvings I had on display in November or December last year.

So all a bit "waiting for clients" and should have them banging on my door given the quality of my work.

Overheads are around £4-5k per year given I've only got £800 left to pay off on about £3k of capital investments, so it's tough to even break even at this point in real accounting terms, and in tax terms the only good thing about it is the pittance I'll have to pay in tax if I carry losses forward into subsequent years. But in real terms I'm barely existing, but given most business are vanquished my massive debts within months of opening, I'm not doing as bad as it sounds.

My reviews and testimonials are really good. Actually I need to dig some more out my emails, ask people to submit new ones to the website (a capability I've had for months but haven't taken advantage of) and perhaps put those directly on ads in local papers or run some low cost facebook or instagram campaigns etc. As an introvert it's all very difficult this sales stuff, even though, it turns out, I'm naturally quite good at it when I overcome my natural shyness.

I'm thinking about putting "seconds" on Depop and Facebook marketplace as well and just ignoring anyone who ignores the list price and the fact I'm an artist not your mate down the road who spends too much on credit cards to keep clothes for more than 30 days.

I need to do more inbound marketing as well as I'm really good at content, it's just that painful time of sitting around making social media posts and blogs etc. not actually making anything with my hands, which is why I created this business in the first place. Not to sit at a computer for 10 hours per day punching characters into a computer screen. But I suppose I have no choice.

I could go down the video content route and start building up a YouTube or Instagram video audience, as that can bring work too as it really shows your workmanship and craft to a wide audience. The downside of that is you are spending about 30% of your time making, 30% editing and 30% on admin. Believe me, editing is a drag.

tl;dr running a business is hard and no it's not all fun and games, you have to deal with tonnes of questions hanging over your head all the bloody time.


I suppose your 'closing' figures dont really matter as long as you're getting enough volume to sustain those so-called low figures. High end, bespoke, design/art stuff is high value goods, so even if it was 1% conversion, still manageable. The hardest part for me (and i've only been in business 9 months ish) is filtering out the timewasters, as 90% of people are completely unaware that a business costs are very high, and that's why the price is high, not because we are greedy. However, i'm just dealing with your local facebook user. You need to be targetting non-domestic customers. Have you tried Linked In? I'm seriously considering paying the £50/month to sign up for that and get access to the busines owners, managerial types etc., where money and business costs are accepted universally.


I might be taking you a bit too literally, but coming from someone who is part of a fair bit of business to business sales, just because someone is buying for a large multi national corporation doesn't mean they're not a cheap penny pinching arsehole who will question every line on a quote - especially if it's something out of the ordinary, so there's little competition to be compared to, or they're inexperienced. Also, some people / huge businesses are cheap, and always will be no matter how successful they are.

It's usually best to try and get them to explain why they think your quote is too, which normally means asking them if they've seen something similar somewhere else cheaper - it means you're comparing a tangible thing rather than just the discussion being about their general abstract idea of "value".

Basically, if they can't prove to you that they can get a superior product at a better price then just stick to your guns.


Yeah, depends on the business. There are plenty of companies who spend millions per year on refurbishment projects, and some of the wastage i've witnessed is unbelievable. They are paying tradesmen 800-1000 per week for 50 hour weeks, for months and months, maybe a year or two. My business is exterior cleaning which does have a lower percieved value or cost, so it's not really apples v apples. However, there are plenty of businesses and private individuals who are willing to pay £500-2000 for a few days contracting a specialist.

For example, the golf club im a member of have just spent 300,000 on basically painting decorating the clubhouse and some soft furnishings (carpets, curtains,lighting, upholstery). This golf club isnt that well off (as most golf clubs are skint these days), yet they see the value in getting profesionals in.

I dunno, it's not easy finding these businesses etc, but i try to stick to my guns and not work for less than a decent living. There's always someone willing to do the work for less than you, usually, but they dont last long because they havent the knowledge to work out their real overheads.

Maybe 80% of my leads are penny pinchers, facebook reverse auction types, but i just hold out for the good clients by standing out from the crowd with decent advertising, uniforms, public liability insurance, RAMS, T & C's. invoices etc

Agreed, I do all of those things. My quotes are immaculate and brief, sent out via Xero accounting and can be paid online with any method of payment really, and shared around with a link. They can just click to accept or reject or reject or add comments which automatically produces an invoice for payment due. If I ammend anything the online version is instantly updated. Small things like that should make this easier.

But you can't force people to participate and reciprocate in this process which is mega annoying if I takes a long time to produce a quote.

I have a uniform for installation work but been thinking of getting some dickies overalls just so that when I sit my arse on the sofa around lunch time or evening break when my partner gets home I feel bad because I'm not in casual wear :lol:

Since I get trade prices for that sort of thing anyway. It's nice being able to make your own uniform and signs!

Except I'm not a member of any relevant trade bodies. I've been thinking if it's worth joining for example there is the Sign Design Society in the UK who have a yearly convention and maybe just the local chamber of commerce. I also should put the real living wage logo on my website ;)

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:58 pm

So, Freelance Creative Direction. That's a new one. Boggles the mind how to even begin costing for that.

Yet creative director is a career target I have considered in the past as, to be honest, strategically I've always felt a bit more on the ball and thinking about things from a broader perspective that I can even realise myself creatively, because there's just so many strawberry floating ideas in there and to much to execute by myself.

Hmmm.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by That's not a growth » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:41 am

A few things happened this week. Another massive rant.

Background.

We're essentially a project-sale driven department, in that I mean our customers don't just browse to a web page and buy a product then get a box a few days later and are left to their own devices. Each solution we do is essentially a 'project' - it could be for a single location, or hundreds, but each customers' requirements are different so the solutions and environments we install in/provide for in are very different. Some require custom software to be written, a lot require custom hardware to be designed and manufactured.

I primarily look after project management of most sales projects, and generally work with the department manager on the operations of the department to keep it running.

By far my biggest criticism of the way things are run is the department is very reactive, especially in project management. In the past I've tried to preempt workload requirements based on customer's expectations and complexity of work - essentially timing how long it would take us to configure and install a solution, times it by the amount of locations, then figure out how many people we need by comparing this level of man hours to the amount of time available until the client's deadline.

This approach at worst has been met with hostility, or refusal to accept this is an approach we need to devote time to. The conversation is essentially always the same; if we can't complete the workload with the people we have then we just need to do more overtime.

Separate to that, our sales aren't looking too healthy compared to last year. We had two large projects last year, and now they're currently inactive our month on month number aren't looking too good. The execs essentially want us to increase our numbers 4x .

My main concern with that is that our workload is currently full, and while it probably wont require 4x the manpower to do 4x the revenue there does need to be analysis into what what kind of workload this could look like, and what we need to do to ensure we can cope.

A lot of our work is done in Excel, One Note and Trello - as well as internal stock and invoicing systems. There is a huge amount of data duplication, and everything you need to do needs to be stored in 2/3 different places, and there are a lot of manual processes that risk human error.

I've been researching systems we could potentially use, but all are too narrow in their scope. We need something that combines sales, project management, asset management, and support tickets - whist being able to be configured and tested by 1 person, and not cost that much. A massive ask.

I've been working with a developer on the team to build a prototype database, to show how relational data will increase our efficiency, minimise human error, minimise duplication, automate dozens of tasks, and to allow us to scale up.

Two things then happened this week.

This work was killed this, saying we don't have the experience to do this and it could create a data security risk. I asked what the plan is to ensure we have the tools available so we can easily do our jobs. I was told I need to submit a document to the head of IT of what I want. Issue being, I did this 2 years ago, and got told since our department doesn't make enough money then resources aren't going to be allocated to us.

Then later, my manger took us all into a meeting room, and explained we need to get more sales, and that I'm going to have to be more involved in sales leads (be a sales rep essentially - be main point of contact, build the quote etc). I have most of the skills to do this as I've assisted others with their quotes, but considering my workload is already too full I asked how they intended to manage this. I got a comment about how my manager didn't really know fully what I was doing, and implied he thinks I'm spending my time on things that aren't essential. Yet, I've got multiple projects I need his sign-off or instructions before I can continue because he's too busy to sit with me.

Also, he keeps wanting me to watch his workload and realise what he's falling behind on, and jump in and do some tasks for him. I tried to explain this just wont work, it opens up the possibility of duplicated work, or work not done to his requirement. I explained, if we have a meeting with a client and he has a list of 5 things he wants doing then he needs to distribute these out to specific people and explain to them how he wants them doing, not just expect people to come out of a meeting and instinctively know what they're doing and what he's doing himself. He disagrees, and things people need to take more charge on projects he's the lead for - somehow.

But we have several very, very large projects that are getting close to coming off that I've been working on him with - which have the possibility of us reaching those targets.

I also asked about commission for sales, and he said this hasn't been discussed but he'll look into it.

There's a bit more, but that's the bulk of what's swirling around in my head. I'm still looking for another job, and it seems the job market is picking up after a lull at Christmas, but it's still a very frustrating environment.

Sigh.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by <]:^D » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:56 pm

sounds like a nightmare :lol:
sorry :fp:

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by DarkRula » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:59 pm

I'd like to question how that manager has stayed in his role for over two years when it seems he has no clue at all of what he's meant to be doing. Unless he knows exactly what he's doing and is trying to subtley run the department into the ground.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by That's not a growth » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:43 pm

<]:^D wrote:sounds like a nightmare :lol:
sorry :fp:


That's what I was going for.

DarkRula wrote:I'd like to question how that manager has stayed in his role for over two years when it seems he has no clue at all of what he's meant to be doing. Unless he knows exactly what he's doing and is trying to subtley run the department into the ground.


He's been at it over over 7 years, and until a few years ago he didn't run the department and there was only a couple of other people. These last few years has massively increased the scale of the projects the department completes, the size of the department's personnel, and he's taken over leadership following people leaving and restructuring of the business. He is very capable at most of the tasks in every aspect of the department, but he's a very "attack the problem in front of you" kind of person when it comes to day-to-day working. He's got a technical background, and gets stuck in with things far too often rather than giving a set of instructions and waiting for the result. He constantly had to nurse, fiddle and change things because his instructions are imprecise and things have to be exactly how he wants them.

He's a massive bottle neck, and it's a major point of frustration. When ever he gives me a task now I essentially have to interrogate him, and he has a habit of wanting to give loads of detail and context to an answer that could be half a sentence - and occasionally I'll just cut him off and ask again just to direct him. We even had a conference call with another company the other day and they did the same thing to him, and you could hear them getting a little frustrated at times.

It's a difficult double edge sword, because him being so detail oriented is why he's so good at what he does, but he's not translating this well to running a team as a whole.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by DarkRula » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:14 pm

I can certainly understand that. It's not something can be changed easily, though, especially if its something he's oblivious about.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Curls » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:00 pm

I'm a bit lost at the moment. Maybe a long post incoming. I'm not sure yet so I'll spoiler it. I wasn't sure whether to post in here or the Depression thread, but maybe its a bit of both.

I am in Cyprus working with the military for work and the bubble is really getting to me. A number of things I think I'll bullet point them

1) Shift work is a killer, I do 2 days followed by 2 Nights quite often. And I've worked pretty much every weekend since November.

2) I've had huge issues with my old 'friends' here, who are also colleagues, I'm now trying to cut them out of my social life, but they've somehow become integrated into my other friendship groups. I can't stand it. They've been absolutely awful friends and every time I tried to fix things they pushed me away. I can't escape them. I want to build the mental resilience to just be able to deal with them, but right now it's difficult. Also the worst one was meant to be leaving in May, it was a light for me. Now work have extended her until September for 'business reasons.'

3 ) I feel I am drifting further and further from other friends I do have here. I don't fit in. The entire culture here is just boozing boozing boozing. And the more time I spend here, the less I want to do that. I'm currently 10 days no alcohol to try to look after my mental health. But I'm not sure if its working.

4 ) I'm meant to be here for 3 years, and I've only been here for one. I'm not sure what to do. If I asked to go back to the UK I'd just be put back in some random lonely location in the UK and made to work shifts again. Also it's good money for relatively easy work and is setting me up well for the future.

5) I really want to persevere and use this experience to make myself stronger, work on my own personal development and build good mental resilience for if I come across similar horrible people in my life in the future.

6) The fact my friendships have failed with these girls still really crushes me and I can't seem to let it go.

7) I am talking to people I've spoken to various friends, the DR and even the Padre on base. They all seem to think I'm on the right side of mentally stable but on nights like tonight I don't feel it.

8) I awoke today (night shifts) to loads of pictures of everyone having fun last night, including with the two girls who were horrible to me. It broke me, all my friends who I could fall back on are becoming more and more friendly with them and I feel like I have nowhere to turn.

9) Also going back to the bubble. I am sick of the military 'types'. Its a confident male dominated environment with all these knobhead typhoon pilots who think they're a big deal. They're all quite polite, but the place is strange. Its boozy, the party atmosphere is weird. They cheat on their wives, my female colleagues flirt with them outrageously, its horrific.

So I am looking at my options with work and with life.

1) Stick it out here, continue to live in this weird bubble with a bunch of alcoholics and live in a tiny room, also have to deal with this girl I hate until at least September.

2) Go back to work for this company in the UK, working shifts again in some random place that could be lonely. But at least could present me with the opportunity to rebuild my life a little.

3) Try to get a job with my current company that doesn't involve shift work. This seems unlikely though as I don't have skills in other rolls and my specific role is all shift work.

4) Apply for Australia / New zealand doing my role but for a completely different company on the other side of the world. Shift work would again be involved, but maybe they'd treat their staff better?

5) Take a sabbatical. Give my brain a rest, maybe do a little travelling,

6) Quit altogether maybe go live in a foreign country for while and get an honest job and let my mind search for itself for a bit. My company always need staff so I'd probably have no issues getting back in.

7) Look at a career change working for a different company. Again though, I have no idea what I'd do. I don't know what skills I actually have that are transferable.

Here is my skillset, if anyone is interested. I am a Senior Meteorologist and I've got 6 years under my belt working for a top Weather related company. I have a degree in 2:1 maths from Uo Liverpool, but I don't recall much of it and things like integration are now difficult for me. I didn't do much applied maths in university, it's all pure so things like Stats and mechanics were left on the sideline. I'm not sure what else to say really, I'm lost, I'm lonely and I'm sick of strawberry floating weekend nightshifts.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Rocsteady » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:03 am

I would suggest life is too short for two more years of that.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by DarkRula » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:50 am

Yeah, no matter how much you try, it sounds as though you won't ever be able to fit in or develop a resistance to the culture that has developed there. I'd say it's within your interest to escape such a culture.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Trelliz » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:35 pm

Curls wrote:2) Go back to work for this company in the UK, working shifts again in some random place that could be lonely. But at least could present me with the opportunity to rebuild my life a little.


If shifts are a given no matter what, is it better to take a chance on the above than be stuck in a rotten situation for certain? It sounds like you need a clean break from these people.

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