The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!

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That's not a growth
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by That's not a growth » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:52 pm

I hadn't thought of that, that could be a good way to go about it. Stuff like this can only happen if it's kept in the shadows and not talked about openly. I am angry enough about it I would like HR to speak to this person about it, and I want my manager to understand I'm this angry about it.

Up till now I haven't really seen this as a company that would deal with this sort of thing in a strong but reasonable way (due to some very toxic, bullying managers being allowed to carry on their way of doing things for a very long period of time) so this could be an interesting way to see how they handle a situation I'm more aware of.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:21 pm

I regret not going to HR earlier when bullshit and bad management was going on about me, by a relatively new manager at the time who was basically abusing casual staff payroll (zero hours) to push employees around and not take their needs seriously, in particular not really doing any people management, time management, or task setting and then blaming me for a lack of initiative (if you need your employees to have iniative, bring them in for more than a day at a time so they can actually cotton onto what the strawberry float is going on, also don't expect them to cover multiple areas when they aren't even there). So I would be inclined to say you should do that, as it sounds someone else was trying to sabotage your image, or was opportunistic enough to deliberately misconstrue something you said. Unfortunately there are sad acts out there who are very good at this.

I've had people quite obviously step into my place before by being opportunistic and eventually my job just "going away" and it strawberry floating sucked and massively hurt my self esteem as I did work very hard and raised the general standard of various parts of department work, none of which was recognised.

Eventually I had to put a complaint into HR around the time I was struck off the staff register systemically with no formal dismissal at all and then finally got an opportunity to speak about all the problems and an apology months after. At which point I was already looking for more work (even when I was spending almost as much in commuting as I was earning which was ridiculous anyway so strawberry float it). That was after emailing HR about 3 times and eventually just emailing bloody everyone remotely related to management, even marketing and the uber boss.

Doesn't sound like plain talk at all to me and a lot of bullshit. I wouldn't want to work somewhere like that but unfortunately I've felt that way almost everywhere which is why I no longer do office work and don't really want to work anywhere with a management hierarchy with room for bullshittery. I tend to feel like when you speak up you get hounded down and when you don't you get blamed for not doing things. Why can't people just do their jobs and stop trying to strawberry float others over it really mystifies me, it's like a little game some people play rather than just doing their job and respecting others which doesn't strike me as difficult to do unless you have to deal with toxic individuals.

If I do ever encounter someone like that in my own company I will get shot of them pretty quick.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by pjbetman » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:56 pm

Well said GG. Yes, I've met a few of those sad acts in my last place of work....managed to get one of them sacked on the spot when i returned the favour! Sneaky little banana split.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:16 pm

I just reviewed the timeline for what I was talking about in my emails as I was curious whether it really was that bad or I had skewed it. Well it was. Basically (after a bunch of examples of really bad management, shouting, blaming, threatening etc)

Month 1 mysteriously don't get called into work anymore, not too worried, work is seasonal anyway. Just mopped up the big annual job that has everyone buzzing.
Month 4 (yes we're talking months here) offered some paltry work on another site, which I accept, no answer,
Month 5 email HR to find out what the strawberry float is going on as my job has seemingly disappeared after over a year
Month 6 follow up HR, eventually get a reply saying it's been looked at.
Month 8 struck off staff payroll because no wages due because of no hours worked. So email EVERYONE, which one of those people forwards to top of HR as kinda sounds bad I guess...
Month 9 get a phone call with assistant head of HR (as it would have been too expensive to travel to a meeting if Iwasn't getting paid, obviously), finally an apology and some recognition this was all total bullshit.

Present: old friend who replaced me with hmmm I wonder what happened there is still doing my old job. Posts videos on Facebook of them and manager on the bants. Oh and they hooked their friend into the "team" as well. Both already worked (and continued to work) under other positions, i.e. cliquey as strawberry float.

Yeah strawberry float that. When I saw the signs of shitty behaviour I was told by an old friend/staff who I knew YEARS before the new department I was working for was formed, that it was probably malpractice from manager, and sounded like bullying so make a diary etc and tell HR, but I was too anxious and depressed about it to speak to HR. So I got royally shafted in the end. Never any kind of formal dismissal or complaint about any work I ever did, which as far as I know, was perfectly fine.

And all under the financial stress of having no guaranteed hours and a long and expensive commute. Really physically demanding work as replacing a team of what used to be several people.

They just had no idea how to work with their resources/people at all and were shockingly rude, I saw them making fun of colleagues behind their back multiple times. This guy basically came in, hoovered up all the salaries of formally made redundant employees and treated the new zero hours people (me) like shite, and the other one left after a week (I later found out it was because they were spoken too terribly as well, but they had another much more prestigious job at the same time, so they were literally doing the job with me for kicks/extra money, as they were ex staff and wanted to help I guess. Wish I could have done the same but needed the money).

There's nothing worse than feeling imprisoned by a job where you're sub-human. This idea that people out there need to be sharks to do the big management jobs and treat everyone else like gooseberry fool, I don't understand how they survive. Is it credentials (I.e. How effective they are at being shitty to others and "getting results")? Bullshitting skills? I don't know.

Anyway they apparently got a talking at by this assistant HR person who should actually care, and hopefully (although I'll never know) that shot a rocket up their arse. Unfortunately they're still working there so I feel sorry for anyone under them.

I was literally told to do this whole big HR email thing after the fact by an NHS mental health practitioner so if anyone wants an idea of how bad, health-wise, being managed by a banana split can get then there you go. Combine that with zero hours practice and you've got one toxic clusterfuck. Never ever go there. If you have no real contract, and you're treated badly, within a week just leave; don't get the idea in your head that it'll get better or there'll be some reward as that's how it's exploitative. You don't just lose your job, you loose your will to live. Thankfully I didn't give up and just turned attention to my business and taking care of myself around the same time, as the sense of betrayal really messed me up and has badly coloured my expectations of working anywhere now.

And that isn't my last bullshittery story either, I got dismissed for no reason again a year later. Although that was independent contracting which has its own barrel of laughs with regards to how others treat you. The difference in my favour was I got paid about 4x as much, daily. Funny it was the same sector (creative arts skills in education) so maybe I should just avoid that forever. My agent didn't understand how that happened either. There's no explaining people being gooseberry fools, they just are.

And people wonder why I'm self employed because my industry skills are top notch :lol:

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by That's not a growth » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:20 pm

strawberry floating hell GG, that's awful. I'm glad you were able to pull yourself through it, but strawberry floating hell.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by mcjihge2 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:48 pm

That's not a growth wrote:

The main thing that concerns me is it's taken it this long to speak to me about it, despite one of his mottos being how he's a plain talker who says it how he sees it. Also, this means there someone taking gooseberry fool about me behind my back. Or he made it up to see how I'd react just because had a concern that I thought I was better than him. And he seems to think I could be the kind of person who would lie about health issues.

It's just swimming around my mind a bit too much I guess.


Did he tell you the name of this other person?

HR is there to protect the company so make sure youve got your story straight if you decide to goto them. Dont goto them angry otherwise you might look like the trouble maker. Get your evidence together - emails, meeting minutes etc otherwise its just hearsay.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:50 pm

I think the fact I still feel the need to bring it up when relevant says it all really. These negative experiences have a very harmful effect on your career overall and if you're not resilient it can get the better of you. But sometimes you need a real shitshow to rethink what you need from a workplace and it does remind me from time to time that I need to make my own thing work if I don't want to get tied up in bollocks like that again. Or hopefully find work at a much better place that doesn't employ straight up arseholes, something that is very hard to do unless you know the organisation well or already know people working there etc.

For example my partner just got a decent paying job at my old college where I was quite happy or at least I thought the staff were good and she seems really happy and fitting in well. They've already covered a staff xmas meal costing £20,000 for everyone there and her pay is about a third more for the same qualifications. She's saying it's much more relaxed as well as the college isn't struggling, has a very good reputation in the community and other staff there are moving onto even better jobs etc so all looks good.

Sites like Glassdoor are a start and its maybe worth doing a bit of a search for blogs etc if you are concerned about a company's reputation (I actually joined after a massive round of redundancies which should have been a telltale sign). But bear in mind disgruntled ex employees are much more likely to post gooseberry fool on the Internet.

My girlfriend weirdly got an interview offer from the last company I worked at (the contracting one also in education) but their salary was so offensive (and I knew they were venture capitalist backed so only in it for the money) she declined and thank god she did as they have an awful reputation and strawberry floated me over as well (obviously that was an influence but my experience lined up with some of the things said on Glassdoor and the general makeup of the conglomerate).

Sucks that you fight really hard to get into a position and it can all go to pot like that, it's a real smack in the face. I remember being really excited and proud and that slow realisation that you're living a nightmare is dreadful. And I am the kind of person who can't stand to be confrontational and will maybe write an email about something I'm concerned about etc. Just get walked all over. So now I have the absolute right to fire anyone I choose to work for, if the relationship turns sour I just collect part payment under contract and do something else. Of course I'll create mechanisms to make work as painless as possible to compensate for something like that. If there's one thing less secure than zero hours or contracting through its relying on a sales/marketing funnel.. It just never lets up the need to constantly sell sell sell. I do miss having a salary and set payment conditions. But it's totally not worth being dragged through the mud.

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That's not a growth wrote:

The main thing that concerns me is it's taken it this long to speak to me about it, despite one of his mottos being how he's a plain talker who says it how he sees it. Also, this means there someone taking gooseberry fool about me behind my back. Or he made it up to see how I'd react just because had a concern that I thought I was better than him. And he seems to think I could be the kind of person who would lie about health issues.

It's just swimming around my mind a bit too much I guess.


Did he tell you the name of this other person?

HR is there to protect the company so make sure youve got your story straight if you decide to goto them. Dont goto them angry otherwise you might look like the trouble maker. Get your evidence together - emails, meeting minutes etc otherwise its just hearsay.

Unfortunately that's all very true, and in my case it was all oral yelling and threatening etc.

I forgot to mention that when I started that job, the manager deliberately opted for me NOT to have an email address so all was done through personal email and in person conversations etc. When I called up IT about a password they were really confused by this, just offering me an email anyway, as this was unheard of as ALL staff communications, access to payroll, organisation-wide announcements, seminars, health and safety, events etc goes through that. I mean there's no more explicit way to be cut off from your employer. Utterly bizarre behaviour.

"Hey what's the best way to aid this person I'm managing to do their job? Let's not have an email address or calendar or any access to our staff directory, yes that will work."

Hilary's emails etc lol

And when I did get that email I started getting interest for other work within the same institution, because they were seeing the good work I was doing, from other departments, because they could look me up on the system and actually contact me, very interesting..

I still have some of those people on LinkedIn and they have said they will get in touch if they see anything coming up etc so hey there's that, not everyone is evil you just have the misfortune of being posted under an evil manager sometimes. The saddest part is good people are eventually lost because they can't take it anymore, so it's a legit company problem, people leaving because they are treated badly. Surely it's not sustainable to keep re-hiring like that and keeping the same bad management.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Rocsteady » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:06 pm

Does anyone know if it's possible to send out a single invitation in outlook with multiple dates and times associated? E.g. a single attached invitation with an appointment for Monday the 24th 9am, Tuesday the 1st at 11am, Thursday the 18th at 4pm...

I know it can be done if it's always at the same time or date but not sure this is possible.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Errkal » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:56 pm

Rocsteady wrote:Does anyone know if it's possible to send out a single invitation in outlook with multiple dates and times associated? E.g. a single attached invitation with an appointment for Monday the 24th 9am, Tuesday the 1st at 11am, Thursday the 18th at 4pm...

I know it can be done if it's always at the same time or date but not sure this is possible.


Not that I am aware of, there is recurrance but it is more "every monday" or "every 3rd Tuesday" kind of thing it has to follow a pattern rather than saying then, then and then.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Rocsteady » Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:58 pm

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:Does anyone know if it's possible to send out a single invitation in outlook with multiple dates and times associated? E.g. a single attached invitation with an appointment for Monday the 24th 9am, Tuesday the 1st at 11am, Thursday the 18th at 4pm...

I know it can be done if it's always at the same time or date but not sure this is possible.


Not that I am aware of, there is recurrance but it is more "every monday" or "every 3rd Tuesday" kind of thing it has to follow a pattern rather than saying then, then and then.

Yeah I did think that but figured it'd be worth a quick check.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by That's not a growth » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:38 pm

Thanks for the words yesterday guys. I don't know the name of the person or have any proof. Guess I'll have to speak to my manager about my desire to go to HR an see if he'll back me up, since he'll know who told him the info.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Gemini73 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:00 am

Covering a 6am-2pm shift today. Won't be busy and it's triple time. I'll be home by 2:30.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by pjbetman » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:19 pm

That's not a growth wrote:Thanks for the words yesterday guys. I don't know the name of the person or have any proof. Guess I'll have to speak to my manager about my desire to go to HR an see if he'll back me up, since he'll know who told him the info.


Sounds like he will have no choice but to explain himself to HR, seeing as he was chairing meetings directly about you. He certainly cant deny anything has gone on, surely? Do you know who else was In that meeting? It's possible to request any data they have on you, via a Subject Access Request, including any formal discussions they've had about you. Hopefully, you won't need to go down that route.... could be the end of the road for you if they think you're causing trouble. However, constructive dismissal would be in the frame then.

EDIT:- Also, if he starts being obstructive, you have every right to go above him. Are you in a Union? Not sure if you need to lodge a grievance with your manager (about the situation, not about him) first, and if he doesn't deal with it satisfactorily (which sounds like he's already failed to deal with it correctly), then you go above him. And keep going until you need to involve HR.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Ecno » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:31 pm

Does anyone know any good websites about employment rights?

The reason I ask is because I've just had my probation signed off at my new job. Which has increased the notice period to 12 weeks, standard stuff. However the letter said 12 weeks either side.

My understanding was that after 2 years of continous employment, you could only be dismissed through disciplinary action or redundancy, I.e. they can't just come up to you and say, thanks very much for your hard work but he's your 12 weeks notice, but I can't find anything online (which is easy to digest), to support this.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Ste » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:45 pm

It just means that if you do get made redundant your pay will be based on 12 weeks notice. Nothing to worry about.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Gemini73 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:17 pm

Ecno wrote:Does anyone know any good websites about employment rights?

The reason I ask is because I've just had my probation signed off at my new job. Which has increased the notice period to 12 weeks, standard stuff. However the letter said 12 weeks either side.

My understanding was that after 2 years of continous employment, you could only be dismissed through disciplinary action or redundancy, I.e. they can't just come up to you and say, thanks very much for your hard work but he's your 12 weeks notice, but I can't find anything online (which is easy to digest), to support this.


This might help

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... l-is-fair/

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by lex-man » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:02 pm

I went for a job interview before Christmas and didn't get the job but in my feedback they encouraged me to apply again. How long do you think I should wait before trying again?

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PostRe: RE: Re: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by shadow202 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:24 pm

lex-man wrote:I went for a job interview before Christmas and didn't get the job but in my feedback they encouraged me to apply again. How long do you think I should wait before trying again?
At least 3 months, maybe even 6.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Oblomov Boblomov » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:30 pm

Going to feel so odd being back at work tomorrow after having so long off. I would be concerned about forgetting how the hell to do my job, but that would suggest I knew what I was doing before.

Anyone else looking forward to getting back to it?

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Bunni » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:34 pm

I took five days off over Christmas and felt myself turning into sludge. No sleep pattern, lazy and no purpose. Couldn’t be bothered to wash my hair and borderline depression setting in. Day before I went back to work I feel rotten, really anxious about going back wanting to just be lazy for the rest of my life.

Ripped that band aid off, got stuck in and it feels good. After being unwell over New Years and waking up feeling brilliant this morning, I’m on absolute top form to be back at work tonight and into routine again.


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