The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!

[Cuttooth]

I think it's important to take into account neurodivergencies as well. For me, a "3 minute conversation" is absolutely never in a million years going to take 3 minutes, and be extremely exhausting and confusing for me; yet you should then have some sort of PA, with my experience being access to work recommendations in this country barely exist, you are basically strawberry floated out of being able to do a job if everyone insists on phoning you always. It can be incredibly unproductive, then, when the call literally is pointless and more an opportunity for someone bored at work or doing "bullshit work" to shoot the gooseberry fool or go around in circles discussing the exact same thing that is actionable to begin with. You can bet they are salaried, and get paid regardless of what their productivity or contribution is like. A long ass phone conversation is often an opportunity to justify someone's involvement in a task at all. Including managers. So they can say, oh I did that thing, I discussed this stuff that someone else is actually doing, for 40 minutes, preventing them from doing any of it.

On the other side of the coin, dyslexics understandably would much rather write little if nothing, yet still struggle with memory - they might prefer to record things visually, which, ironically, does include words. Presumptions, are always bad.

That's absolutely true and something everyone should be mindful of.

I do think managers taking everyone's time up is less to do with the medium of a conversation and more to do with them. I've seen plenty of people write a paragraph of prose in an email when a couple of sentences will do, for the purpose of getting their point of view on a situation front and centre.

Probably 90% of communicating internally I do via email but I'd suggest the 10% spent speaking to people either on the phone is worth quite a lot because I get to know the person on the other end a lot more than I will from a series of emails by themselves, whose tone I can also easily misread. It's definitely not an either or kind of thing for me.

Meetings can often be a real waste of time though, even if a lot of those positives can be found there too.

[Green Gecko]

I used to call people for 20-40 minutes at least on average to get to know them yeah, maybe things would fall through, or I'd realise this net me about 10 quid, and I'd suffer immense burnout. It's not just being tired, it kind of strawberry floats with my brain. I'm crap at always writing huge emails, I do think it's a valid strategy to show you give a gooseberry fool, nonetheless, I'm considering hiring someone with dyslexia and ADD to write shorter ones that I never find the time to respond to because I just can't help myself writing 1000 words. What will take them about 2 minutes will take me literally 2 hours. I have time tracked email tickets (I use tickets) running into 4hrs for gross profit of about 20 quid.

Generally the response is "thank you for the [compliments] in depth reply" and that can earn a customer (and it's cheaper than advertising or sales staff on commission) but sometimes it's

"what's the price"

"I need a price"

"..."

or

"Here's my complex situation that I don't yet fathom is complex, because I know nothing about it, everything must be simple and if it's too complicated I'm not going to do any of it"

I can't give you a strawberry floating price if you don't answer any of my questions!!

Obviously a far more automated, "cautiously priced" online system is the way to go there, and I have this now. Yet if you do that, you get someone who submits something insane through the limited remit of what a pre-priced product package can cover and then expects that grandiose project for the cost of a multipack of hula hoops. The system can only pre-suppose so much, and you get out what you put in.

I might train this person to just say "Starting at £50" in response to every person like this so that they strawberry float off and I can write the proper proposals to people wanting upwards of 1000 items like today.

So for example my starting prices are £25 ex VAT or delivery with all of the gooseberry fool up front and ready to go. £70 minimum for everything else. That's extremely good value considering the forever I spend in consultation with each and every client.

If people want volume prices they need to be capable of answering questions and putting together the ingredients first. Yet this virtually never happens. It's maddening. I need to pay someone to ask those questions and answer the same things over and over again.

That hellscape but on the phone 24/7? No. I literally won't be able to make head nor tail of anything happening.

[Sprouty]

I was offered a new job on Monday, but turned it down, advising that the wage wasn't in line with my expectations. I've been 'available' on LinkedIn since the start of the year and have had around 60 recruiters approach me in that time, so I was confident enough that I could find something else outside of the business and I had gained a good understanding of a competitive rate. They went in low, I went in high.

They came back today with an extra ten percent on top of the original offer & I've now accepted it. I'm pretty happy with that, it's a big step up for me, the role being exactly what I am after and natural progression from my existing role & the apprenticeship I completed earlier this year. The role is in the same company, so there's minimal upheaval and all of my existing benefits stay in place. I have to say, turning down an offer for a role I wanted with extra pay in order to negotiate was bold and the wait was nerve racking, but it worked out just as intended.

The volume of recruiters contacting me really shows how much demand there is to fill roles right now. I would highly recommend it as a tool for anyone who is looking for a new role, or even just curious as to what they might be offered elsewhere for the same role.

[Green Gecko]

Don't ask don't get.

Well played.

[Godzilla]

That's really fantastic. I think I'll set up a linked in page, might as well see what's out there.

[Sprouty]

Don't ask don't get.

Well played.

Thanks! I just added in a further couple of sentences to my post, commenting on the market as a whole. The value of understanding what is out there cant be understated. Everyone has their own approach and what works for one doesnt work for all, but for me, making myself available to recruiters to find online gave me great insight.

It certainly doesnt hurt that I am in a role which can be done remotely... it opens up the entire country rather than just a small radius from my own home.

[Sprouty]

That's really fantastic. I think I'll set up a linked in page, might as well see what's out there.

Thank you! Feel free to message me if you want any ideas or pointers (same goes for anyone really). My short advice is to stay focussed and add the skills relevant to your role.

I decided to start working in data about five years ago. My profile is now 100% data related. There's no need to provide detail on previous roles outside of data. Same goes for my cv! Likewise, I know the skills required in my role are SQL, Python, Requirements Gathering etc. These are on my list of skills, but irrelevant skills are not. Make yourself findable. Good luck!

[Green Gecko]

Really great news. It's worth bearing in mind that skillset is really in demand everywhere because big data just grows and grows, the volume of business intelligence and analytics is just ridiculous compared to yesteryear. Data science is something I considered very seriously. Of course the Internet drove this.

I used to do data analysis for SEO and it just made me sick, I'm almost too good at analysing the strawberry float out of everything until I'm borderline psychotic and properly asking "What is real". So that was a no for me. I stuck it out for a year though.

Of course in my current role I have to refer to hard data all the time to make decisions, such as, time tracked against a client and their productivity in terms of revenue for the business, or what's the point!! I'm the kind of person who wants to help, no matter what, I've had to learn very deliberately when to say no. Wound up being a key subject in counselling where I was shouting NO at an iPad dinging away for a customer that wanted to change a delivery address (I was making my way there on foot, planned since Thursday) to another one 4 miles away both ways. 2hrs before the delivery timeslot. Adding 1hr and and 5 minutes to the journey time.

A core tenet of project management really is saying no, basically. Let's not do all of those things so that we can actually deliver this one thing.

When we say "yes" really it's saying "no" to a million other things. Perhaps I'm reaching that time in my life when I realise there really isn't time for everything, for everyone, always, forever. It's this aspect of management in a creative business that's most difficult, because you're wired to think "that's possible, or if I don't know how, I'll find out".

[Errkal]

You could say big data just keeps getting bigger.

A hurr hurr

[Drumstick]

Last day in my current job today.

Looking forward to starting my new job on Monday.

[Sprouty]

You're right, data needs are only increasing. I'm very fortunate to enjoy working in an area where there is likely to be strong demand for the rest of my career and something that I'm good at and enjoy. It took me a long time to figure out what it was.

Last day in my current job today.

Looking forward to starting my new job on Monday.

Good luck Drummy!

[Knoyleo]

Our company have moved payday this month from Friday this week to today, because of the bank holidays, and now loads of us haven't been paid yet. Normally it would transfer at midnight, but so far all we've been told is that it could take until 11.30. It's now 11.14, and I still have no sign of my pay.

Gonna make this long weekend a bit uncomfortable for a few people if it doesn't come through.

[JT986M2]

That's really fantastic. I think I'll set up a linked in page, might as well see what's out there.

Thank you! Feel free to message me if you want any ideas or pointers (same goes for anyone really). My short advice is to stay focussed and add the skills relevant to your role.

I decided to start working in data about five years ago. My profile is now 100% data related. There's no need to provide detail on previous roles outside of data. Same goes for my cv! Likewise, I know the skills required in my role are SQL, Python, Requirements Gathering etc. These are on my list of skills, but irrelevant skills are not. Make yourself findable. Good luck!

If you don't mind me asking, what role did you do prior to going into data analysis full time? Also, what apprenticeship did you complete on your pathway into it?

I only ask as it is something that interests me. My current role (and others for the last 8+ years) has been in software application support and, to be honest, I am growing tired of it. As part of those roles there is a big reliance on data analysis - specifically, SQL skills - so a full-time data analysis role does seem like a good fit. My undergraduate degree was also in Software Engineering, so I do have (rusty, but good) foundations when it comes to programming languages.

I'm really just looking for pointers in terms of how to make the transition!

[Sprouty]

That's really fantastic. I think I'll set up a linked in page, might as well see what's out there.

Thank you! Feel free to message me if you want any ideas or pointers (same goes for anyone really). My short advice is to stay focussed and add the skills relevant to your role.

I decided to start working in data about five years ago. My profile is now 100% data related. There's no need to provide detail on previous roles outside of data. Same goes for my cv! Likewise, I know the skills required in my role are SQL, Python, Requirements Gathering etc. These are on my list of skills, but irrelevant skills are not. Make yourself findable. Good luck!

If you don't mind me asking, what role did you do prior to going into data analysis full time? Also, what apprenticeship did you complete on your pathway into it?

I only ask as it is something that interests me. My current role (and others for the last 8+ years) has been in software application support and, to be honest, I am growing tired of it. As part of those roles there is a big reliance on data analysis - specifically, SQL skills - so a full-time data analysis role does seem like a good fit. My undergraduate degree was also in Software Engineering, so I do have (rusty, but good) foundations when it comes to programming languages.

I'm really just looking for pointers in terms of how to make the transition!

For me it was quite a departure from my previous role, whilst I think your experience already has some relevance, so that's a great start. Because of the industry which I work in, there is always a need for data. A lot of this is serviced by dedicated platforms, whilst there can be gaps which are filled within teams. I had a chat with my manager and advised that I was looking to progress in to a data role down the line and that I would be really pleased to take on any data challenges within the team. This started to get me some exposure and I combined it with a lot of online learning to develop my skills. I personally used Linkedin Learning for this purpose as membership is provided by my employer, but you could look for other sources online, either paid or free. I later took a short term secondment in a data team, before returning to my previous role and putting what I had learned in to action there for a while, before finally applying for full time roles. My apprenticeship was a Data Analyst Level 4 and was offered to my team about a year after I took on the full time role. Most people do not complete it, but I liked the structure of it and it's something I now always have to my name.

My recommendations for you are:
1) Seek out opportunities to use data in your current role. I felt quite comfortable having the conversation, but I appreciate not all employers are the same. This should be a mutually beneficial thing. You can gain some experience whilst providing value to your employer / manager. If you can't get this exposure, consider finding some public data sets and setting yourself some tasks.

2) Build upon your relevant knowledge. You mentioned SQL and whilst it wont be needed in every DA role, it will be used in a large percentage and can be a key skill - it's the most common Database Management System used. As a Data Analyst, you don't tend to manage a database (that's a Data Engineers role), but rather to query it, so focus on being able to write queries. I'd recommend SQL Bolt as a nice interactive site. Online learning is great, but better to do a few courses and put those skills in to action than fly through twice as many courses by just watching videos.

3) Build on your knowledge gap. Don't overlook the importance of Excel for a start - it's not as sexy as the more tailored tools, but everyone has it and it can tend to do pretty much everything until you start to move to big data or data science. Beyond that, different roles require different system knowledge. Python is a big one, but some businesses will use R, Power BI, Tableau... the list goes on and on. If you want to look for a role in your current business, figure out what tools they tend to use and focus on getting a bit of exposure and knowledge of those, but otherwise there is no real wrong answer as demand is high. You could end up learning Python and then taking a role where you use Tableau, but that's fine - lots of the key concepts will translate from one system to another.

4) Apply for job roles and interview for roles. Rejections are fine - they give you knowledge of what gaps you need to focus on. I took interviews for roles I wasn't overly keen on just to get some interview practice.

Good luck! Let me know how you get on and if you need any more specific pointers, I'm more than happy to discuss.

[Qikz]

Had an interview with a company today who I got scouted for by a recruiter. It was a screening interview, I think I did ok? I'm not that worried if I don't get it, but the recruiter was saying the role is offering nearly £15k more than what I'm already on and it's a much more senior role. It should be fully remote, but I can't confirm that until a second interview.

Should hear back within a week they said.

[andretmzt]

That's great news! Hope you get that second interview!

[Qikz]

That's great news! Hope you get that second interview!

Thing is while the money is good there's a part of me that isn't even sure I want it. Unless they can guarantee it's 100% remote all the time (which I have right now) and I get more holiday days than I get (25 without bank holidays) then I'm not sure the extra money is worth me moving company - as much as I've complained about the place I work out now it's a small business and I'm pretty well trusted to just get on with things now and to go to a huge company like this new one is something I'm not really sure I want to do. :/

[Qikz]

They came back to me yesterday and asked me for dates since they want a full interview.

It's 2 and a half hours long

[Dual]

They came back to me yesterday and asked me for dates since they want a full interview.

It's 2 and a half hours long

Go for it man, it's good practice anyway.

Even if you reject an offer they make you can at least wave that in the face of your current employer to get a bump.

[RetroCora]

Exactly what Dual says.

I'm currently looking at jobs around the world. Mad the difference in pay for the same responsibility in some places.