The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!

[Errkal]

I hate my job as well, but it pays, and I'm uneducated twat due to poor life choices, so I'm punching above my weight currently.

I hope to get some computing skills under my belt. I would really like to do a computing course, but my local college doesn't do anything beyond extremely basic stuff, and I seen what the OU did to my sister and that makes me wonder if I could hack it for a few years. Even at that, the OU course I think has a placement period, I'm not sure how I would work through that.

It's a bit gooseberry fool.

What sort computing skills do you wan to gain, its a quite a broad topic and depends what you are aiming for sort of thing.

I'd like to start programming in general, but I can never figure out where to begin with it. I've looked into different languages and I've had a bash at Python, but for someone completely inexperienced, I found it a bit tough to grasp the concepts.

Give this a go

https://www.sololearn.com/

It's done on website or an app and android and iOS covers the basics on all kinds of languages so good for getting a basic idea of what's going on and what you like.

Plus it's free.

Thank you so much for this Errkal, legend

No worries. I have a full on python course on Udemy started a while back if you get on with it can probably send you my login and you can do that too it's a very in-depth course covering everythingdrom setting up an ide to making stuff. All videos with an instructor and challenges throughout very good. I'm not using it so should be alright to let you use it

[That]

I'd like to start programming in general, but I can never figure out where to begin with it. I've looked into different languages and I've had a bash at Python, but for someone completely inexperienced, I found it a bit tough to grasp the concepts.

I see you've already found decent tutorials and suchlike, so I wanted to give some help with the "conceptual" side of it if I can.

Programming is all about breaking down problems into a set of tiny steps. The programming language provides you with a basic set of "things you can do" (like add a number to another number, or print some text to the screen), so the game is to take the problem you want to solve and keep breaking it up until the list of steps you're left with only has those "things you can do" in it.

Start out small. Like, the classic example is "Hello world", which might look a bit like:
write("Hello, world!")
And you might want to modify that so it says "Hello, [a name that the user inputs]!". Another of the basic operation of the language might be "read" to read in something the user types. So you think, I need to ask the user for a name, read it, add all the bits of the sentence together, then print it:
write("What is your name?")
name = read()
output = "Hello, " + name + "!"
write(output)

Programming languages are all optimised for a different set of problems. Python is a general-purpose language for building all kinds of software and (with Pygame) games. AAA game development is mostly C++; "Business enterprise applications" are often Java, sometimes C#; Julia is for machine learning; Bash is good at Linux system administration tasks; embedded systems are usually C. There's a standard set of languages for web front-end development - HTML, CSS, JavaScript - and web back-end development is still mostly done with PHP.

If you want to learn programming for programming's sake, Python is definitely a good choice. If you're interested in a particular problem domain, consider learning the languages associated with that field. Of the languages I've mentioned, C and C++ are quite hard - I would be tempted to dip my toes in with Python, Java, or C# first - but the rest aren't considered inherently difficult languages to learn.

[Moggy]

I'd like to start programming in general, but I can never figure out where to begin with it. I've looked into different languages and I've had a bash at Python, but for someone completely inexperienced, I found it a bit tough to grasp the concepts.

I see you've already found decent tutorials and suchlike, so I wanted to give some help with the "conceptual" side of it if I can.

Programming is all about breaking down problems into a set of tiny steps. The programming language provides you with a basic set of "things you can do" (like add a number to another number, or print some text to the screen), so the game is to take the problem you want to solve and keep breaking it up until the list of steps you're left with only has those "things you can do" in it.

Start out small. Like, the classic example is "Hello world", which might look a bit like:
write("Hello, world!")
And you might want to modify that so it says "Hello, [a name that the user inputs]!". Another of the basic operation of the language might be "read" to read in something the user types. So you think, I need to ask the user for a name, read it, add all the bits of the sentence together, then print it:
write("What is your name?")
name = read()
output = "Hello, " + name + "!"
write(output)

Programming languages are all optimised for a different set of problems. Python is a general-purpose language for building all kinds of software and (with Pygame) games. AAA game development is mostly C++; "Business enterprise applications" are often Java, sometimes C#; Julia is for machine learning; Bash is good at Linux system administration tasks; embedded systems are usually C. There's a standard set of languages for web front-end development - HTML, CSS, JavaScript - and web back-end development is still mostly done with PHP.

If you want to learn programming for programming's sake, Python is definitely a good choice. If you're interested in a particular problem domain, consider learning the languages associated with that field. Of the languages I've mentioned, C and C++ are quite hard - I would be tempted to dip my toes in with Python, Java, or C# first - but the rest aren't considered inherently difficult languages to learn.

I can only do one thing in programming but it is always useful and it has never let me down.

10 PRINT “banana split”
20 GOTO 10
RUN

It’s a timeless classic.

[That]

10 PRINT “banana split”
20 GOTO 10
RUN

It’s a timeless classic.

Nice.

It was a purer age of computing.

[Lotus]

I've heard some people have success with https://www.codecademy.com/ as well - might be worth a try.

I also (semi) hate my job and am thinking about quitting and taking a break. The things that put me off doing this is the prospect of not finding a job by the time my planned break ends and also how this will appear to future employers. Do people here think a 3-6 month gap in employment because I wanted a break will look bad or create suspicion?

I quit my job a few years ago, without another one lined up, and then went back into the same sector a few months later. It turned out fine, but the first job I got after the break, my employer was a bit suspicious and wanted assurances that I wasn't going to suddenly leave them as well.

I have a colleague who took a year out to go travelling and ended up teaching English abroad for a bit. I'd imagine that kind of thing might be slightly better received/understood, or doing something constructive with the time off.

Conversely, I've another colleague who's about to leave because he's simply burnt out and needs a break. No real plan in place, no job lined up, just needs to get out of working for a bit. I'd imagine he'll have a harder time, but I imagine a lot of it comes down to the industry/sector/employer.

I think you need to be careful with your career. I think most people want to become a manager or beyond but the seniority comes at a cost. I've been a senior manager for the best part of a decade and although I enjoyed being a team manager and still having my hand in on the technical side, as I've become more senior I'm pretty much totally hands-off and miss all the technical stuff. Because I've been away from it for quite a while, it is pretty much impossible to get back into it unless I want to give up a lot of my personal time to use for training, which I can't and won't do because at the end of a long day, doing some training is not on my mind.

I have a number of people who are very technical that want to be managers and they need to be very careful in what they wish for.

Yeah, that was the crux of my point really - wanting the money of senior management without any of the responsibility or sacrifices that usually come with it. I always thought I'd just want to rise to the top as it's the done thing, but the reality is that work becomes a lot more stressful, boring and time-consuming as a result. It's do-able to an extent, but probably not a realistic long-term path to walk down. You can only dodge the gooseberry fool for so long, if you want to keep climbing the ladder.

[Moggy]

10 PRINT “banana split”
20 GOTO 10
RUN

It’s a timeless classic.

Nice.

It was a purer age of computing.

That one program alone was 3 or 4 years worth of solid entertainment.

[Death's Head]

10 PRINT “banana split”
20 GOTO 10
RUN

It’s a timeless classic.

[emoji38] Nice.

It was a purer age of computing.

That one program alone was 3 or 4 years worth of solid entertainment.

Better....

Written by Moggy:
10 PRINT "Karl is a banana split"
20 GOTO 10

Added by Karl:

30 PRINT "No I'm not!"

[That]

Obviously "No I'm not!" should be statement 15, otherwise it won't ever be executed. Noob.

[Moggy]

10 PRINT “banana split”
20 GOTO 10
RUN

It’s a timeless classic.

[emoji38] Nice.

It was a purer age of computing.

That one program alone was 3 or 4 years worth of solid entertainment.

Better....

Written by Moggy:
10 PRINT "Karl is a banana split"
20 GOTO 10

Added by Karl:

30 PRINT "No I'm not!"

That's too complex. Stick to BASIC programs please.

[Death's Head]

I really miss programming. I have thought about doing stuff in my spare time but I have little of it and then it is difficult to decide what to actually do. I did start a web based course on Udemy but it wasn't really that interesting. I have an Android one paid for but not started which I could do but when I have some free time I'd rather use it for entertainment rather than learning.

It was better when I was paid to do it, developing stuff and fixing impossible issues with impossible deadlines

[That]

I really miss programming. I have thought about doing stuff in my spare time but I have little of it and then it is difficult to decide what to actually do. I did start a web based course on Udemy but it wasn't really that interesting. I have an Android one paid for but not started which I could do but when I have some free time I'd rather use it for entertainment rather than learning.

It was better when I was paid to do it, developing stuff and fixing impossible issues with impossible deadlines

Is there a way you can tie programming into any hobbies or interests? Gaming is an obvious one, but, you know, you could take player stats and try to predict football results*, or whatever else you do in your spare time.

* I don't know anything about sports but you know what I mean.

EDIT: To give an example, a project I worked on "recently" (OK, it was ages ago now!) was tracking and visualising polling data in the last general election.

[Moggy]

EDIT: To give an example, a project I worked on "recently" (OK, it was ages ago now!) was tracking and visualising polling data in the last general election.

...and that's why you don't get invited to parties.

[That]

EDIT: To give an example, a project I worked on "recently" (OK, it was ages ago now!) was tracking and visualising polling data in the last general election.

...and that's why you don't get invited to parties.

Apart from election-results-viewing-parties!

Just kidding, I watched the results come in alone in my dark room.

[Moggy]

EDIT: To give an example, a project I worked on "recently" (OK, it was ages ago now!) was tracking and visualising polling data in the last general election.

...and that's why you don't get invited to parties.

Apart from election-results-viewing-parties!

[Death's Head]

For those of you who work in development or are keen hobbyists, what is the best way of keeping up on the latest technologies? I feel quite out of touch, are there particular websites I should peruse to stay up to date?

[That]

The subreddit for whatever field you're interested in is probably a good place to start. Also, that field's StackExchange will be a good barometer of what kind of problems people are working on, which techs are in vogue, etc.

[Ecno]

I truly hate my job, I wanted to quit about a year ago but got talked into staying, I then spent since November trying to find a new role, but couldn't really find anything I wanted. I've recently become a bit less picky both in salary and role, but handed in my notice a few weeks ago without another job lined up.

I still have 10 weeks and 1 day left of my notice though, and just find each day painful. I must spend about 30 minutes away from my desk each day just thinking how much I hate it, which is probably incredibly reinforcing.

What do you do?

I'm an accountant for a large accountancy practice. Finding another job which will be paid more than my current one will be relatively easy, but I've been here 7 years, from out of university. My biggest problem is I'm now doing things I don't like doing as I'm in effect a project manager and manager, when I enjoy far more all the technical stuff.

I had 3 rounds of interviews at once place, but unfortunately they restructured their team (i.e. brought guys across from India) so that ended up in a now show.

Have a 2nd interview lined up soonish, and then another 1st round on Tuesday. Then had one really terrible interview last week.

I do have an application in, for my dream role, but not sure I'll get an interview as my current skills aren't that closely aligned with what they're looking for but fingers crossed.

[Preezy]

A guy just turned up for an interview wearing tracksuit bottoms, some knackered trainers and a scruffy t-shirt

[<]:^D]

are you sure you dont just think hes here for the interview?

[Errkal]

Should be about his abilities not his clothes, don't discriminate