The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!

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Tomous
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Tomous » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:59 am

Drumstick wrote:Just found out that I passed my project management qualification. :toot:


Congratulations :toot:


Does that change the direction of your career st all?

Having been involved in some substantial projects with good and bad project managers, I have a huge amount of respect for the good ones.

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:22 am

I just had a customer pay me in advance the price they got per item with a volume discount, without me quoting or invoicing them first for just 1x. They said they did this and were confused because they looked back that their bank statement from a year ago and sent me what they paid previously. Who the strawberry float thinks commerce works like this?

Now they're complaining the price has increased by £1 so they won't make enough profit and so won't be asking me for more next time and will find someone cheaper. Fine then, bloody go ahead.

Why are they charging such a low price for resale? Why are they paying me before knowing what the price is?

Prices change all the time, in some sectors on a daily basis. I pretty much want to switch off as soon as somebody complains about a 7% increase to a service (or actually a removing a discount previously applied, even thought the same rule doesn't apply any more i.e. good faith) because if cheapness is no.1 purchasing factor I am not set up for that. And I actually charge 40% less than the nearest competition, geographically, so I'm already considerably cheaper :lol:

I still honoured their payment anyway but could have just told them to strawberry float off. Of course I don't do that. Jeeze surprise surprise the lowest paying are the most demanding... hmm wonder why my attitude towards low pay jobs is like that. This is someone who I once stayed up literally all night making piles of items for so that they were ready in time.

Just for some perspective, we're talking £15 versus £14 to print a single T-shirt - a process which is done about 60-70% by hand. In these cases the economy, depending on how you look at, it is actually worse for low volume or one-off jobs because there is more initial labour that is not converted into profit as much as it would be for a longer/bigger job (even if the price per item for those jobs is considerably lower). It's very annoying and makes you want to not do these.

And that is the truth behind why most garment printing businesses have cost-prohibitive set-up costs, expensive fixed fee low volume offers or minimum order quantities. Because it's just not strawberry floating worth it dealing with customers that want a £.5-1 price difference or very specific requirements or fast turnovers for barely an hour's wage for one person, nevermind any of your operating costs or just vast amounts of time spent emailing the customer to explain the same gooseberry fool over and over again (which is a large part of why I charge what I do, because this is a high level service component).

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Drumstick
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Drumstick » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:44 am

Tomous wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Just found out that I passed my project management qualification. :toot:

Congratulations :toot:

Does that change the direction of your career st all?

Not immediately but it gives me more options when I decide to move on from my current post.

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
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Squinty
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Squinty » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:34 am

Drumstick wrote:Move to a non-customer facing role if you don't want to speak to customers. That's what I did.


I applied for roles like this, but haven't been successful in getting them. I'll keep on applying.

Been in customer service for about 10 years now. I feel dead inside :lol:

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Drumstick
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Drumstick » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:42 am

Squinty wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Move to a non-customer facing role if you don't want to speak to customers. That's what I did.

I applied for roles like this, but haven't been successful in getting them. I'll keep on applying.

Been in customer service for about 10 years now. I feel dead inside :lol:

Have you requested and subsequently received feedback on the reason(s) why you've thus far been unsuccessful?

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Squinty
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Squinty » Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:41 pm

Drumstick wrote:
Squinty wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Move to a non-customer facing role if you don't want to speak to customers. That's what I did.

I applied for roles like this, but haven't been successful in getting them. I'll keep on applying.

Been in customer service for about 10 years now. I feel dead inside :lol:

Have you requested and subsequently received feedback on the reason(s) why you've thus far been unsuccessful?


Yeah. The long and short of it, I think I need to work on myself a bit*

*A lot

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ITSMILNER
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by ITSMILNER » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:28 pm

Squinty wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Move to a non-customer facing role if you don't want to speak to customers. That's what I did.


I applied for roles like this, but haven't been successful in getting them. I'll keep on applying.

Been in customer service for about 10 years now. I feel dead inside :lol:


What area do you provide customer service for?

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:44 pm

Same customer just replied to myself explaining that the detailed consultation and transparency I give when questions are asked is part of my offering with literally "LOL!" at the end of a sentence mocking the fact I've tracked several hours of email time responding to their requests. Yeah I'm done, will personally drop one shirt off (so free local delivery) and then send canned responses "booked for 20 working days" to any future emails from them.

They were also bright enough to include snark in the email chain with someone else I don't know, which is really unprofessional. This is supposed to be a business customer. Their friend describing me as as crazy for writing long emails, twice.

No, you just can't be bothered to follow due processes I.e. Read emails. This isn't how solicitation works, anywhere. You can't just send someone money and then expect them to deliver the thing you want before they've even confirmed they're available to do it or gone through the process of confirming what the job actually is, 9 months after the last time. :lol: what if I had 1000 items to print this week? What if I was on holiday?

Some people just don't appreciate effort for what it is so good luck getting it elsewhere and for less money as well.

It's like selling a product before confirming your factory can actually supply it. In fact it is literally that. Bizarre business logic. Felt anxious about it all evening. It strawberry floating sucks getting actually sick because your customers are mocking the amount of attention you give them behind your back :|

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Jenuall
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:19 pm

Green Gecko wrote:It's like selling a product before confirming your factory can actually supply it.

Sadly things like this actually happen all the time in various industries!

I work in software development and have lost count of the number of times I've encountered situations where some sales person/bid team have steamrolled their way through winning a piece of work without properly considering whether we have things like the skills, technology and availability needed to do it.

But they don't care because their job was just to "win the work" so they probably get a bonus for theoretically bringing in more business when actually all they have done is screw over the people who are actually going to need to try and deliver on it! :fp:

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Cuttooth » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:01 pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that sentence of went "Well..."

:lol:

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:18 pm

Jenuall wrote:
Green Gecko wrote:It's like selling a product before confirming your factory can actually supply it.

Sadly things like this actually happen all the time in various industries!

I work in software development and have lost count of the number of times I've encountered situations where some sales person/bid team have steamrolled their way through winning a piece of work without properly considering whether we have things like the skills, technology and availability needed to do it.

But they don't care because their job was just to "win the work" so they probably get a bonus for theoretically bringing in more business when actually all they have done is screw over the people who are actually going to need to try and deliver on it! :fp:

I certainly appreciate that and it does happen.. However this is someone else totally alien to me claiming I am available and willing to do something for a certain amount of money and within a certain amount of time when they have no idea whether that is the case. You could solve that sort of problem within one organisation eventually, it might be difficult, but this is just unprofessional and well, a bit foolish or straight up stupid. The relationship struck up making certain items up for resale in a predetermined quantity. By doing it this way what they are asking for is dropshipping or whitelabelling for dirt cheap, or "on tap", which is a totally different type of supply relationship. It means I take on all the risk and they take on none. It's like getting someone else to gamble their time and money for you. No thanks.

I.e. just peddling my studio and work as theirs. Which makes me a cog. I didn't get into business to do that so won't be supporting them that way. I can't afford to be beholden to elevated privileges when I have no contractual obligation anywhere with a third party to do what they merely assume I will. Of course had I said no they would probably have complained and poorly reviewed me saying I don't do what I say in can, and I can't be arsed with that either. Which is why I'll just deliver quietly and ignore future requests. I've already refered them somewhere else but they've said they won't be looking at it yet.

So I unfortunately I have to figure out how to fire this client as they've gone out of their way to insult me. Their friend suggested they look at other options anyway so good riddance. If a business customer can't be bothered to follow due process, check basic things like prices and availability before confirming a sale and read emails then it is absolutely not worth wasting time with them over a few quid profit (and they are complaining they don't make enough profit. Increase your prices then! Don't squeeze your suppliers, it's not my problem. My costs remain the same.).

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Kezzer » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Can't you just tell them to get lost?

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Green Gecko
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Green Gecko » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:01 pm

The trouble with this kind of customer is if you don't do what they want there is a risk they will review-bomb you. At the moment the strength of my enquiries coming in etc. depends on me demolishing the competition locally with the most number of 5 star reviews, so I have to "exit quietly" with things like this.

I've sent them just 2 paragraphs (so a couple of sentences) clarifying our working relationship and that maybe they should look at dropshipping with something like Spotify (£20 per month plus whatever the dropshipping supplier charges :simper:). I need to have things checked with me and go through the standard invoicing procedure before selling items because I am not set up for that or capable. Hopefully that gets the message through. There are various contractual, legal and accounting issues with not doing this and it inevitably leads to incorrect payments, surcharges, refunds and just more work to dick about with.

Might seem like an over-reaction but come on this is super inappropriate, even when I am contrite in admitting my emails are long:


GG wrote:Nonetheless, I appreciate it's frustrating since you already sold the shirt. I'll honour £13.99 based on past price for 6x. I last gave this price to a customer who ordered 14 shirts, one week ago. I am not trying to overcharge you. I really make hardly anything either; when I look at the materials and labour elements financially it is a very low proposition. I spend multiple hours simply on e-mails because I want to be detailed but not everyone agrees that is a good thing. For example, the local Print Centre charges £25 per shirt with lower quality garments and I have used them before with mixed results (I once gave them a very high resolution file of a painting and it came out really blurry anyway, they did do it again but I knew they had made a mistake and tried to blame me).


Customer wrote:Hi!
I can see why it takes you hours mailing, LOL!

El mar., 2 jul. 2019 13:22, ________ <_________@gmail.com> escribió:
I believe he is saying he will do it at 13.99. Its hard as there is so much information in there that is not needed or called for. However I would take what he has said to mean that he will charge you 13.99 for it. However I would recommend you look into different options as it always seems to be the same and the time it takes to get things sorted is crazy, its craxy how long it take to even go through and email.

On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 1:02 PM Beatriz Bravo <_____@gmail.com> wrote:
So...
Could you tell me whether I have to pay him the difference?
Like, what's the deal in the end of aaaaall this:


---------- Forwarded message ---------


They forgot to delete the below part. I know people do this anyway but a lot of businesses have disclaimers saying "contains priveleged information intended only for the recipient and may contain confidential information" etc. (which it does, info about my working processes and products I use etc.) That's not on imo.

The length of my correspondence is a direct result of asking questions in every reply! It's my duty to respond to those queries.

If they can't be bothered to read answers to questions and go through the process of exchanging emails twice in total then they should just google "print t-shirts cheap and easy online with no work" and leave me to do more worthwhile and challenging things with the skills I have :simper:

And a lot more customers appreciate I do that than this one so, whatever man. Just this kind of thing brings me down.

You ask a question you get a comprehensive answer, anyone who knows me knows that and I have multiple positive reviews even from people overseas in Italy etc. highlighting my detailed information and attention to detail! That's my competitive advantage. What they want is "click here and get thing with no work" which is not worth including someone like me in the supply chain.

Anyway got actual paid up work to do for multiple times the money so nipped that in the bud and get on with my orders for 20-40+ units or even 1x but for double that money. Total joke what they're expecting from a micro business without respecting the terms of the relationship. It's really not asking a lot to confirm with your supplier first that you can actually get the thing you want, even I do that on a daily basis as stock levels and logistics etc. have complications on a constant basis.

I have said that if I have a system that is super easy and automated etc. in the future I'll let them know but at the moment I don't so welcome to go elsewhere. I'm certainly not just telling them to strawberry float off as I've made several useful suggestions.

Edit: it's also ironic because just today one of my trade suppliers has published a report explaining price increases for thousands of items as of this month (with no prior notice) and my accounting package has gone up by £2 per month as well. :lol: Complaining about that after no contact for 9 months is.. naive, to say the least.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Lagamorph » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Work are giving us an AWS course next month :toot:

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Moggy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:02 am

What notice periods do you have for annual leave?

We have had an email from our team leader saying that she has received pressure from above to not authorise any “last minute” holiday requests. She says that therefore in future she will not authorise anything without the “contractual two weeks notice”.

Two weeks notice for a half day or 1 day holiday seems mental to me. I can understand it for some taking a whole week or fortnight off, but for just a half day?

I have been checking our employee handbook and my contract and can’t find anything that specifies how much notice is needed for leave. The “two weeks” thing sounds like bollocks to me.

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andretmzt
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by andretmzt » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:05 am

If it isn't in your contract or HR policy documents, she can strawberry float off. Much like my employer can strawberry float off when they prevent any leave being booked 3 months ahead but then change what days I am working 3 months ahead.

edit: Incidentally, we will be changing from leave years based on your birthday to a flat Jan-Dec setup for.....reasons. Tie that into the lack of staff, leave booking shite and oh look, We have no staff in December as everyone is using up their leave!

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Moggy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:09 am

To be fair I don’t think it is her doing it. It’s the cheeky strawberry floater above her, he’s the twat that constantly “works from home” only telling us at the last minute.

Searching online, the government advice is that notice for holidays should be booked twice as long in advance as the time off requested. E.g. 2 days notice for 1 day off. That seems far more reasonable to me.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement- ... -time-off-

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Oblomov Boblomov » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:34 am

Leave should be requested in a sensible fashion, not a timely one.

Something's come up at home tomorrow and you're not expected in a meeting or to be supporting 'something specific and time-sensitive etc'? Fine, see you when you're back in the office.

You want to go on holiday in three months at the same time you're supposed to be doing 'something specific and time sensitive etc'? You know what I don't even care anymore. Do what you want. Nihilism forever.

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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Moggy » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:43 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Leave should be requested in a sensible fashion, not a timely one.

Something's come up at home tomorrow and you're not expected in a meeting or to be supporting 'something specific and time-sensitive etc'? Fine, see you when you're back in the office.

You want to go on holiday in three months at the same time you're supposed to be doing 'something specific and time sensitive etc'? You know what I don't even care anymore. Do what you want. Nihilism forever.


:lol:

I’d agree with your sensible approach. Things happen and people need to take last minute time off sometimes. If it doesn’t harm anybody else, why cause a fuss?

I haven’t booked any leave but I am tempted to book a day off next week just so I can have a fight. :lol:

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Jenuall
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PostRe: The Work Thread 2 - Get back to work!
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:24 pm

I don't know if there is anything about this in my contract (who actually read a contract right?! :slol: ) but our place is pretty damn flexible about these things.

If a genuine crisis/emergency has come up that means you need to leave right now then the response is pretty much "get out of here, we'll be fine".

If you find you need to take leave at short notice - a day or half day tomorrow for something that's just come up (childcare issue etc.) then again it's pretty much always fine. If there was something happening that you were fundamental to then there would be a discussion about how best to proceed - do we need to re-arrange, can you handover to someone else etc.

Taking proper "holiday" style leave - i.e. going away for two weeks in the summer or what have you then they expect a bit of notice - we use the "agile methodology" at work which means everything we do basically happens in "sprints" of 2 or 3 weeks - as long as we know what people's availability is going to be when planning the next block of work then it's all good!

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