The Wrestling Thread: AEW Dynasty

[coldspice]

Raw underground has been done before and far better than WWE will ever do.

Look up Tetsujin and Bloodsport if you actual want decent shootstyle.

[KK]

Though RAW Underground is still fake, it can't be any worse than the WWF Brawl For All tournament.

This notion that your core wrestling product isn't good or violent enough though so you've therefore got to have this 'real' fight instead is a strange recurrence. If you want to watch people get beaten up legit, watch UFC.

[Corazon de Leon]

Checked Raw out for the first time in a long long time.

I liked the Raw Underground idea. It’s very different. I don’t know though how something could carry on long term as it seems very limited in what can happen, despite the anything goes tag line.

One question can Dominik Mysterio actually wrestle? I guess we will find out at Summerslam.

The mysterious faction looked like a bunch of wild teenagers attacking that generator (whatever it was) outside the building. Maybe it was the angle of the camera but it didn’t do them any justice.

Is Samoa Joe done with wrestling or is he on commentary due to a long term injury?

Dom Mysterio is wrestling now? Barely seems like yesterday that Rey was fighting for his custody in a ladder match against Eddie Guerrero.

[Cumberdanes]

What they calling him, El Hijo de Rey Misterio Jr, Rey Misterio Jr Jr or Príncipe Misterio?

[captain red dog]

Just seen Raw Underground. I thought it was absolutely terrible. Normal Raw would probably be better in that setting, but fake shoot fights look absolute shite.

[captain red dog]

I got thinking this morning, it's such a shame WWE are in the state they are at the moment and I wonder if it is hitting the bottom line for a lot of the great journalists that cover it. I follow quite a few sports, and the journalism around wrestling seems to be absolutely fantastic in how they cover the news stories, right down to financial results etc.

It's really fascinating hearing from a lot of them the similarities to WCW in 98 and 99 that WWE seem to be going through and record low viewers. But it's mixed against quite amazing financial numbers. WWE is really in such a weird state at the moment.

[RJ Badman]

I've had a lot of thoughts lately and I feel like doing some typing so hey why not, here we go.

EDIT: Jesus this is long. TL;DR: Underground isn't staying, Excalibur's an idiot, Taz is irritating, WWE scripting is like a production line, wrestling needs more magic powers

1. There is no way that Raw Underground is going to be an actual thing, it's just going to be used to jumpstart an angle, mark my words. Maybe the Underground wrestlers will Nexus the main show or something.

2. Excalibur's N-bomb blast from the past: I'm no fan of Excalibur. At all. However, this old clip was clearly him just being a heel, and not representative of anything he might think in real life. Despite this, I absolutely understand why he might be for the chop, because he insists on appearing as that same character, with the stage name and the stupid mask that neither fits him nor is centered on his head properly. If he was maskless and using his real name he could quite easily say that was a storyline and he was playing a character, but because he's trying to luchador himself over, AEW has that same character presenting their shows, so absolutely I get why he's gone for now. I mean, HHH did that thing with Booker years ago when he was on about "you people" but no-one thinks he's racist because he's not running around in his ring gear blasting Motorhead on his phone and pointing at his dick backstage.

3. Related, I do think it should be possible to do storylines with more despicable baddies. The vignette the other week with the implied homophobes being merc'ed by Sonny Kiss about the car is a good example. Don't get me wrong, it would have to be rare, both because it shouldn't be frivolous and because unless really done well it will forever stain the heel in question no matter what he does. But it just bemuses me a bit when you've got heels who will happily attack someone and their family, hit 'em with cars, plant booze/drugs on 'em or whatever but they still have, for example, a Pride flag on Dolph's entrance jacket. It's a bit cartoony, but in the wrong way.

4. Also related: Less Excalibur means more Taz. Jesus. I'm watching this week's AEW Dark and while I'm not averse to people having fun on telly (see 7) he just seems to be taking the piss as opposed to having a laugh. Almost everything he's said has been irrelevant, it's like having a podcast playing in the background. Also he along with COLE and COLE'S clone on Raw are the last three perpetrators of the Don West legacy of mispronouncing Pelé as "pay lay", which sounds like slang for prostitute. I'm no botchamania fan but Taz's commentary is definitely insipid.

5. Yes, I need a crowd to fully enjoy wrestling, but AEW are handling this so much better than the WWE at the minute. The bigger arena, the better camera direction and the workers around the ring who - yes, while feeding reactions for faces/heels - genuinely seem to be enjoying themselves is as good as it could be. WWE, by counterpoint, is near-silent at times when it matters, looks like WWF War Zone, have an incredibly irritating amount of banging on the plexiglass, and because they've been scripted and micromanaged to within an inch of their lives the crowd both look and sound like videogame crowds. Seriously, you watch how they seem to go through stock animations, it's shocking.

6. Speaking of scripting, this is why a bad AEW will always be preferable to me over a WWE show of any quality in its current form. AEW's old-school approach to promos is so much more engaging to me and helps each person stand out, whereas every single smegging promo in the WWE is exactly the same. Ruby Riott is supposed to be a punk FFS and her promo this week was exactly the same as anyone else's. It's not just in promos, though: just about every word spoken on WWE TV comes across as micromanaged to fook, and I know they have directives like "don't say 'can he be victorious', say 'can the Viper/Apex Predator/Suitcase Shitter be victorious'". The way every promo shoehorns details in so badly. "I can't wait to have our match next sunday at Summerslam on the wwe network for that title". The way everyone in the company next month suddenly switched from "Extreme Rules: The Horror Show" to "The Horror Show at Extreme Rules" at exactly the same time. It's just so... ugh.

7. The above also affects my main point about what I call the modern kayfabe: We all know it's predetermined of course. Through sheer willpower of denial and being pre-internet I managed to wilfully delude myself that it wasn't until around my thirteenth birthday, but now I do I don't watch it to see the baddie get their comeuppance, because it's all predetermined. Instead I watch it like I'd watch any entertainment show - Top Gear/Grand Tour with its quite kayfabe-ish writing is a great example. The new kayfabe isn't about the public being deceived, it's about the public being part of the product. Like potter fans assigning themselves to gryphonpuff or whatever, wrestling fans attach themselves to characters and gimmicks moreso than just supporting the wrestler like they did in the days of hulkamania. Matt Hardy absolutely can freeze time to explain insider terms, for example. It’s a FACT. It’s real. I’m part of it, heh. Workrate matters, of course, but I feel it matters far less than people think. In this post-kayfabe age, it baffles me how in the past few years wrestling has moved into a more sports-based presentation. You have these characters and the ability to do anything you want with them now, and we’ve barely seen any of that aside from Broken Matt, the cinematic offshoots (The Wyatt/Cena mania thing was tremendous fun) and Being the Elite. Taker’s had magic powers for twenty years, so why there isn’t more of this, I don’t know. How many actual moves do people talk about around the virtual water cooler? Two, maybe three? Mankind off the cell, Edge hitting the spear on Jeff off the ladder? But do you remember the absolute frenzy of commotion, both positive and negative, about The Final Deletion? Plot means something.

8. The Butcher and the Blade. Victorian Jack the Ripper types, but also they sometimes dress like evil ice cream men and also like Nine Inch Nails. Also one is a part time gimp. Pick a gimmick plz. Butcher’s pre-match Sonic 2 final boss knee-walk thing is gold though, keep that in. Especially since he looks a bit like Dr. Robotnik.

9. Cash Wheeler sounds like a payday loan company.

I have a headache now. It’s still real to me dammit etc

[Rawrgna]

So just when you think nothing in pro wrestling can shock you Marty Jannetty just casually posts to Facebook about about allegedly killing a man when he was 13

[RJ Badman]

[KK]

ERIC BISCHOFF.

Much sooner than I expected, tbh.

[Corazon de Leon]

So just when you think nothing in pro wrestling can shock you Marty Jannetty just casually posts to Facebook about about allegedly killing a man when he was 13

Definitely never happened, the man is a burned out husk.

[captain red dog]

I thought Bischoff did quite well last night, didn't overshadow anything. Would love to see him back as a minor on air talent, maybe replacing Taz on commentary.

Jannetty, I dunno. I kind of feel like he probably did do it. The guy has serious problems that probably date back to childhood when he said this happened.

[RJ Badman]

Bischoff was great but I never wanna see him again.

Orange Vs. Sea Levels was gold.

Wondering what's going to happen with Matt, I hope it's a window into something else and he's not just Raw-midcard Matt Hardy again. Also Jesus the way he got Dustin'd with that chair. Not only did the table look like he'd been shot in the head but there was a puddle of blood under the table.

[KK]

AEW Dynamite averaged 901,000 viewers last night (defeating NXT which managed 753,000).



Should have dyed his hair for the occasion.

[captain red dog]

Bischoff was probably in the most viewed segment on the show too!

[Return_of_the_STAR]

No doubt about it. Although I wasn't a fan of wcw, Bischoff is a good on air talent.

[Slimgrady]

Bischoff to be the “higher power” of the dark order
I actually wouldn’t mind seeing him back as an on screen manager or something , don’t think he’s done that before? And I don’t mean General Manager!....even though he was great at that!

[Corazon de Leon]

Yeah as much as he’s an absolute walloper of a man, he’s always been a fantastic heel.

[coldspice]

WWE bringing in a an Antifa/BLM style faction as heels.

Can this company just hurry up and die?

[Rawrgna]

wait so are Retribution at all connected to the Hacker who was teased on smackdown recently or is that dropped?