[Rules p.1] Things that annoy you guys. 100 percent. Not gonna lie

Stugene wrote:...I'm not going to rub his tummy and tell him that he's a good boy for playing a weird game with people's incomes.

If someone doesn't point out when you're making a mistake then you wont learn...

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this, Stugene. I suspect that neither of us are gonna alter our view so... that's that.

kerr9000 wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Preezy wrote:

Moggy wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:

Preezy wrote:

site23 wrote:I try to tip generously when it's applicable.

To echo Moggy's comment earlier - when is it applicable, and how is that determined?

I don't even know if I could answer that myself

It's easy, you should tip

- Waitstaff (all restaurants)

Except for fast food. Or pub meals.

Even if they bring you the food in the pub? Such a complex rule system

I have never seen anybody in 'spoons handing over £5 to the bloke that brings the food to the table.

Having worked for just a month short of 10 years in spoons I can tell you its company policy not to accept tips but some pubs take it a step forward and tell you to take tips but to put it in the till its for the company not you.... You are also if things have not changed not supposed to accept drinks from custormers. I can happily tell you I have accepted a decent amount of tips and a lot of drinks and they have gone to me..... Spoons are an absolute horrid company.

Absolutely shocked a company run by Tim Martin could be horrible to work for. Shocked I tell you!

Stugene wrote:

jawa_ wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:Perhaps a mod would have posted something along those lines if any of the posts you've called out as being problematic had been reported. If you think there is an issue that's literally the point of the report function.

Me replying like this is derailing the thread (well, sort of - I guess it does annoy me a bit!)

Orange, I think you're a good guy, and I don't want to have any sort of bad feeling whatsoever with you.

But.. this idea that highlighting name-calling is somehow a bad thing and is derailing the thread.... no. I feel that we should be far more passionate about not accepting the bad forum behaviour rather than being too concerned about a temporary interruption of chat.

A member has left the forum and it's starting to feel like this is being washed over.

He volunteered the information he posted and we discussed it. I don't think he should leave, but I'm not going to rub his tummy and tell him that he's a good boy for playing a weird game with people's incomes.

If someone doesn't point out when you're making a mistake then you wont learn. He's mistaken in what he is doing, but I don't think he should leave the forum because of it. Just pick it up and move on.

You can argue with someone without resulting in name calling and multiple people all piling on..

My View on tips , its a weird weird sea of thoughts..... if companies paid well enough there would be no need for tipping... Also its strange when some people are deemed as deserving of tips but others are not when they are doing the same thing, so you dont tip the person in wetherspoons who brings your food but you do in a more upmarket place serving similar stuff for more money even though the person in spoons might be running around even shorter staffed doing more work. Its like if your low paid and society has deemed your job tip worthy congrats that might help you live, if your low paid do the same thing but you fall in the no tips bracket then oh well enjoy starving in a cold home.

kerr9000 wrote:You can argue with someone without resulting in name calling and multiple people all piling on..

Agreed, this is an issue which used to really plague ONM/SONM and over the years, it caused a lot of bad blood and led to a lot of people leaving.

Vermilion wrote:

kerr9000 wrote:You can argue with someone without resulting in name calling and multiple people all piling on..

Agreed, this is an issue which used to really plague ONM/SONM and over the years, it caused a lot of bad blood and led to a lot of people leaving.

It caused one of my fave users to leave SONM and I thought about them a lot over the years as I lost contact.

Nothing caused me more stress than tipping when I went to America. I knew about tipping culture but didn't really research it. I'm sure I was both over and under-tipping because I didn't know how much I was supposed to. I also wasn't sure whether I needed to bring attention to it, like "this is for you" or just leave it on the table. Or leave money on the table with the tip to one side. I just watched other people and sort of copied what they were doing. I struggle with social situations at the best of times but towards the end of my holiday in America I was avoiding eating because it was causing me so much stress

kerr9000 wrote:

Vermilion wrote:

kerr9000 wrote:You can argue with someone without resulting in name calling and multiple people all piling on..

Agreed, this is an issue which used to really plague ONM/SONM and over the years, it caused a lot of bad blood and led to a lot of people leaving.

It caused one of my fave users to leave SONM and I thought about them a lot over the years as I lost contact.

Anyone i knew? I still remember one guy who was a decent chap and a pleasure to chat with, only for him to be bullied off the boards by some asshat using a photo of him as their profile pic (he complained, things escalated, people argued, a resolution couldn't be found, and so he departed).

There are quite a few folk who fell by the wayside over the years, of which i do sometimes wonder what became of them.

Re: tipping:

It's true (obviously) that we don't have the opportunity to tip every low paid worker who contributes to services we use. There's no logical consistency behind who is considered, by social convention, to be "tippable".

The contention here seems to be that "tippable" workers have a privilege compared to those who aren't usually tipped. As discussed, the purpose of tips as a cultural norm is to depress those workers' basic wage. Receiving tips might make you a little better off than some other minimum wage workers, but it also keeps your basic wage lower than it otherwise would have been. I therefore don't believe it is unambiguously better to be "tippable".

Some of the discussion skirts around saying, essentially, "it should be everyone or no-one". On a political level - yeah, every worker is equally deserving of a living wage and should receive one.

Refusing to tip an individual worker you are interacting with doesn't advance a political goal, though. Of course, insisting on tipping isn't praxis either - it's not like there are Marxist-Tippists out there saying tipping should be part of the utopia. The individual act has no bearing at all on systemic issues. It's an interaction between individuals and nothing more than that.

I personally think the kindest thing to do in that interaction is to be generous if you can afford to be. Not everyone can, or wants to - and sure, whatever, do what you want. It's not a war crime, no-one is going to come after you. At worst, being callous about it like Barnsy was (at least, how it came across before he claimed he was being misrepresented and left) might make other people think you're a mean person.

Re: Barnsy leaving the forum:

I think is bullying is wrong. But Barnsy hasn't been bullied off the forum. He's been called rude names a couple of times for posting opinions he knew would be, at best, very controversial.

In Games he comes across as friendly and wholesome. In Stuff he comes across as a right-wing misanthrope. Maybe he should stick to Games and we would all be happier.

I sympathise with not really being up for politics debates on here. (I'm only myself making this relatively serious post because the topic popped up in a non politics thread.) But you do have to take some responsibility to just, like, not talk about politics, if that's what you want.

site23 wrote:

The contention here seems to be that "tippable" workers have a privilege compared to those who aren't usually tipped.

Some of the discussion skirts around saying, essentially, "it should be everyone or no-one".

It's neither of those things.

The contention is a (usually) rich business undercutting workers pay by getting members of the public to top it pay. And they get away with it because of the successful gaslighting of the public into thinking it's a good thing.

The whole system is wrong.

It's of course up to the customers whether they tip or not. Except it isn't anymore, it's now automatically added to the bill and you're an arsehole if you ask them to remove it. And you have no idea how much of that "optional" charge even goes to the employees.

All while the cleaner is sat on minimum wage with no tips at all.

I've already explained that I don't believe tipping as a cultural norm is a good thing, and also explained in depth why I don't believe the example of the cleaner is particularly relevant to a person's choice whether or not to tip a waiter. I won't quote those bits back at you as I'm sure you've read them. It's OK if you disagree, but I hope you understand I can't respond to that post without going round in a circle, and I don't really want to do that.

It's worth pointing out that, in the US, tipping started after the Civil War as a way for the hospitality sector to avoid paying former slaves. So...yeah tipping as a cultural norm definitely isn't a good thing and has very insidious origins, and in the US where the Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour employees that can receive tips actually have a minimum wage of $2.13/hour, with the only stipulation being that they have to receive at least $30 in tips per month.

site23 wrote:Re: Barnsy leaving the forum:

I think is bullying is wrong. But Barnsy hasn't been bullied off the forum. He's been called rude names a couple of times for posting opinions he knew would be, at best, very controversial.

In Games he comes across as friendly and wholesome. In Stuff he comes across as a right-wing misanthrope. Maybe he should stick to Games and we would all be happier...

To be honest, I'm not aware of Barnsy's record as to what topics in stuff he posts in and how he goes about it. But that last line... bloody hell, site. Telling someone to "stick to Games" so that "we would all be happier". That sounds to be pretty divisive.

I'm getting a picture that some folk who have disagreed with Barnsy in the past are now really unloading. It feels to be more than just about the posts today and - IMHO - some pretty bad behaviour is being largely condoned; possibly even encouraged.

site23 wrote:...I sympathise with not really being up for politics debates on here. (I'm only myself making this relatively serious post because the topic popped up in a non politics thread.) But you do have to take some responsibility to just, like, not talk about politics, if that's what you want.

I, too, do not take part in some topics. That's fair enough, of course. But is it the case that if someone disagrees with you in these topics, you can be called names? And that's all fine? It seems so.

I *know* it'd be easier if I just shut up and didn't say anything about this today; perhaps I should just look away as someone else leaves the forum. But, if we keep doing this, there's gonna be about fifteen people left.

Fifteen people left, all of them Jawa re-registers.

I dunno man I read what he said about abortion and now this and am I meant to be sad he’s left? If he wants to take the huff are we meant to grovel for him to come back when he’s the one with questionable morals? He can come back if he wants but I think he 100% deserved being called out on it.

Its a discussion board. People discuss. I don't understand what there is to get?

jawa_ wrote: I *know* it'd be easier if I just shut up and didn't say anything about this today; perhaps I should just look away as someone else leaves the forum. But, if we keep doing this, there's gonna be about fifteen people left.

This is the attitude of someone who cares about a forum and wants what is best for the place not themselves, someone who knows they might get rude comments or people having a go but says what he feels needs to be said for the good of the place.

On the Now TV app you can't add kids shows to your watch list, so every time I want to watch Adventure Time I have to manually search for it #FirstWorldProblems

Stugene wrote:

jawa_ wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:Perhaps a mod would have posted something along those lines if any of the posts you've called out as being problematic had been reported. If you think there is an issue that's literally the point of the report function.

Me replying like this is derailing the thread (well, sort of - I guess it does annoy me a bit!)

Orange, I think you're a good guy, and I don't want to have any sort of bad feeling whatsoever with you.

But.. this idea that highlighting name-calling is somehow a bad thing and is derailing the thread.... no. I feel that we should be far more passionate about not accepting the bad forum behaviour rather than being too concerned about a temporary interruption of chat.

A member has left the forum and it's starting to feel like this is being washed over.

He volunteered the information he posted and we discussed it. I don't think he should leave, but I'm not going to rub his tummy and tell him that he's a good boy for playing a weird game with people's incomes.

If someone doesn't point out when you're making a mistake then you wont learn. He's mistaken in what he is doing, but I don't think he should leave the forum because of it. Just pick it up and move on.

I think this would work if people weren't bringing the subject up again just to bait him into responding.

Anywayyyyy

The Sun keep doing these articles where it's like 'Man goes up and scares speeding ticket officer, WHO'S SIDE ARE YOU ON?' and they do my tits in. I keep getting them on my notifications despite saying I don't want anything from that outlet.

"Lost" post. Doesn't help either that the customer services rep I'm emailing is incredibly unhelpful, continuously ignoring my queries to only answer the first line of each email. Literally had to repeat myself three times now and they still haven't told me what's going on. Seriously losing my patience now.

The mail has been pretty slow lately anyways, my credit card statement was almost a week late, and my last blu ray from hmv was 4 days overdue.