Tipping restaurants in America

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mrspax
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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by mrspax » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:20 pm

Lagamorph wrote:If it's not the paying customers place to start that revolution then whos is it?


The Americans and Canadians. Not tourists who are there by invitation. And it seems like they don't really care that much anyway.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Drumstick » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:33 pm

[iup=3616232]Corazon de Leon[/iup] wrote:I'm not surprised that the barman kept your friends' dollar - although he was pretty rude about it, I fall firmly in the camp that says your friend should have left the tip.

[iup=3616263]mrspax[/iup] wrote:
Drumstick wrote:What do you make of the barman not actually giving my friend his $1 back? Surely that is not on?

I suspect the damage had been done in you guys arguing the toss. Maybe not right, but I'd say socially you guys made the first (big) faux pas


Just to clarify the situation as you guys seem to think otherwise - my friend didn't argue or do anything, the incident was simply as I stated it. My friend ordered a drink, was quoted $4, handed over a $5 bill and given nothing back. He didn't get a chance to leave the tip because it was taken from him which is not right. The barman should be giving him the $1 back, and then my friend should be leaving the $1 as a tip if happy with the service. The fact is he wasn't even given the chance.

[iup=3616232]Corazon de Leon[/iup] wrote:With that in mind, your last paragraph in essence amounts to "If we drastically cut the wages of vulnerable low-skilled workers by not supplementing their meagre income, something might happen."

I am saying that the basic wage of waiters and bar staff needs to be increased to stop the over reliance on tipping and goodwill of others.

I had not heard of tipping one cent as acknowledging poor service, it's interesting. How do establishments handle this, generally speaking? Do they get angry that someone has dared to leave one cent as a 'tip' or do they see it as a sign that their service needs to be better next time?

I'm still at a loss as to the McDonald's thing. Is it because McDonald's is a massive corporation and possibly pay their staff better than the average restaurant?

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by PaperMacheMario » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:10 pm

[iup=3616192]mrspax[/iup] wrote:
PaperMacheMario wrote:
[iup=3616172]mrspax[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3616143]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:When we refused to tip for that he told us to leave.


The fact that any North American would not have found this in the least bit unreasonable suggests you need to learn a bit more about the foreign culture you are visiting.

A dollar a drink. It's the way it works.

Even if the service isn't good?


See previous post.

1 cent.

But that's if it's "VERY poor service". You haven't advised what to do if the service was average.

FWIW I tip unless the service is particularly poor, and tip more if the service is better than expected. I just think when it's standard to tip 15-20% you should have to earn it.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by mrspax » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:20 pm

Drumstick wrote:Just to clarify the situation as you guys seem to think otherwise - my friend didn't argue or do anything, the incident was simply as I stated it. My friend ordered a drink, was quoted $4, handed over a $5 bill and given nothing back. He didn't get a chance to leave the tip because it was taken from him which is not right. The barman should be giving him the $1 back, and then my friend should be leaving the $1 as a tip if happy with the service. The fact is he wasn't even given the chance.


I see your issue, but the fact that no other Canadian bats an eyelid at this course of event suggests you needed to do your homework. The point where the fact its normal was pointed out was the point you back down. Just the same as when I would call out a tourist pushing in a queue in the UK. It may be normal for them but to challenge my view as a local and generally upstanding bloke is not being a good visitor.

Maybe you didn't know this is normal - if so, chalk it up to experience. Don't fight it.

We all go through this kind of thing when visiting new places and cultures. It's part of the fun!

Drumstick wrote:With that I had not heard of tipping one cent as acknowledging poor service, it's interesting. How do establishments handle this, generally speaking? Do they get angry that someone has dared to leave one cent as a 'tip' or do they see it as a sign that their service needs to be better next time?


Its known as 'tipping a penny'. It's not a regular occurrence because the service needs to be woeful, but know that if it has got to that no one is going to be interested in returning to the place or being friendly - ie the fallout doesn't matter. Don't use it if they forgot your side order of fries.

Do use it if all your meals came at separate times, were incorrect and the waiter didn't apologise or offer you some form of recompense.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by mrspax » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:22 pm

PaperMacheMario wrote:
[iup=3616192]mrspax[/iup] wrote:
PaperMacheMario wrote:
[iup=3616172]mrspax[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3616143]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:When we refused to tip for that he told us to leave.


The fact that any North American would not have found this in the least bit unreasonable suggests you need to learn a bit more about the foreign culture you are visiting.

A dollar a drink. It's the way it works.

Even if the service isn't good?


See previous post.

1 cent.

But that's if it's "VERY poor service". You haven't advised what to do if the service was average.

FWIW I tip unless the service is particularly poor, and tip more if the service is better than expected. I just think when it's standard to tip 15-20% you should have to earn it.


15%. It's the average (and also the accepted minimum). Between 15 to 20 is a sliding subjective scale - you are safe in this zone (unless of course the service was obviously excellent and you only bumped 15).

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Drumstick » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:45 pm

[iup=3616322]mrspax[/iup] wrote:I see your issue, but the fact that no other Canadian bats an eyelid at this course of event suggests you needed to do your homework. The point where the fact its normal was pointed out was the point you back down. Just the same as when I would call out a tourist pushing in a queue in the UK. It may be normal for them but to challenge my view as a local and generally upstanding bloke is not being a good visitor.

Maybe you didn't know this is normal - if so, chalk it up to experience. Don't fight it.

We all go through this kind of thing when visiting new places and cultures. It's part of the fun!

OK. Perhaps part of my problem with the barman's attitude/behaviour was that up until this point we had been given our change at all the other bars/pubs we had been to (and then left a buck on the counter for our drink). This occasion was the only time in three weeks this happened to any of us and so we thought it was a little off of him to do and say that (though I maintain he could have been kinder about it given that we are tourists).

If it's generally accepted to do that then fair enough.

Thanks for your input btw.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Lagamorph » Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:53 pm

If the service is simply average, there's no way I'm leaving a tip whether I'm in America, Canada or the UK. A tip is a reward for exceptional service, not standard service.

And to expect a tip is one thing, but to outright ask for one is something else and is entirely unacceptable. If you're going to ask for a tip you might as well just increase prices and wages, then institute a no tipping policy.

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PostTipping restaurants in America
by mrspax » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:17 pm

Lagamorph wrote:If the service is simply average, there's no way I'm leaving a tip whether I'm in America, Canada or the UK. A tip is a reward for exceptional service, not standard service.

And to expect a tip is one thing, but to outright ask for one is something else and is entirely unacceptable. If you're going to ask for a tip you might as well just increase prices and wages, then institute a no tipping policy.


I suggest you avoid America then. You won't be welcome with culturally intrasient views such as that.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by No:1 Final Fantasy Fan » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:37 pm

Thanks for all the replies guys much appreciated. Seems like I have also create a stir lol. I am currently trying to change the ways of my cousin about this issue.
He's been saying things like we can say we are poor students (but poor students don't eat at Nobu), we can say we are from Japan where they don't tip (but you are in the US), there are expensive bottles of wines like £100 each doesn't mean you have to buy it (this has nothing to do with the tip).
I can't believe how tight/ignorant some people are lol but I guess each to their own.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by mrspax » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:00 pm

Pro tip, if he won't budge, don't be sitting with him at the table.

You'll be an accessory to the crime!

Seriously though, who seriously suggests going to Nobu and paying the price therein for eating 2 star Michelin and then quibbles about the tip - however much it is. Ridiculous.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by False » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:33 pm

You just factor the cost of the tip into the overall price of the deal. Its not rocket science.

These guys make a pittance on their wage and so the tips are the accepted medium for their payment. I agree that they should have a widescale reform of their minimum wage brackets (which would probably help them absorb more tax dollars), but it is not the place of a visitor to make that argument in a bar on a night out.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by TV Dinner » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:51 pm

McDonalds apparently doesn't allow their staff to accept tips according to Yahoo answers.

[iup=3616013]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:Unless they actually give you some amazing service to earn it, don't tip.
It's a reward for going above and beyond, not just doing the job you're already getting paid for.


Labour laws are such a mess in America that businesses can get away with paying service staff ridiculously low wages because customers will give them tips.

[iup=3616200]Drumstick[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3616170]mrspax[/iup] wrote:Plus, relatively speaking, eating out is cheap in the US (for the fact that tipping makes the service industry's wage a living wage).

I agree, but the food industry's living wage has long been a problem in North America. My belief, misguided or not, is that if people stopped automatically tipping for average service and only tipped when the service received truly merited one then something might be done about it.


The only way it's really going to change is if the government mandates a nationwide substantial increase in the minimum wage. That's not happening anytime soon considering Republicans are in charge of the senate and house of representatives.

[iup=3616266]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:If it's not the paying customers place to start that revolution then whos is it?

Government lol.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by rinks » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:12 pm

Apparently, if you use a self-service checkout at a supermarket in America, you're entitled to a tip for the service you have provided.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Corazon de Leon » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:42 pm

:lol:

[iup=3616283]Drumstick[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3616232]Corazon de Leon[/iup] wrote:I'm not surprised that the barman kept your friends' dollar - although he was pretty rude about it, I fall firmly in the camp that says your friend should have left the tip.

[iup=3616263]mrspax[/iup] wrote:
Drumstick wrote:What do you make of the barman not actually giving my friend his $1 back? Surely that is not on?

I suspect the damage had been done in you guys arguing the toss. Maybe not right, but I'd say socially you guys made the first (big) faux pas


Just to clarify the situation as you guys seem to think otherwise - my friend didn't argue or do anything, the incident was simply as I stated it. My friend ordered a drink, was quoted $4, handed over a $5 bill and given nothing back. He didn't get a chance to leave the tip because it was taken from him which is not right. The barman should be giving him the $1 back, and then my friend should be leaving the $1 as a tip if happy with the service. The fact is he wasn't even given the chance.

[iup=3616232]Corazon de Leon[/iup] wrote:With that in mind, your last paragraph in essence amounts to "If we drastically cut the wages of vulnerable low-skilled workers by not supplementing their meagre income, something might happen."

I am saying that the basic wage of waiters and bar staff needs to be increased to stop the over reliance on tipping and goodwill of others.

I had not heard of tipping one cent as acknowledging poor service, it's interesting. How do establishments handle this, generally speaking? Do they get angry that someone has dared to leave one cent as a 'tip' or do they see it as a sign that their service needs to be better next time?

I'm still at a loss as to the McDonald's thing. Is it because McDonald's is a massive corporation and possibly pay their staff better than the average restaurant?


I read the post, I just didn't word my reply as best I could, sorry. Your friend should not have expected a dollar back from his five, and I am fairly surprised you didn't experience an enforced tip like that quicker on your journey, although I do agree that the barman was rude to him as he shouldn't have expected a foreigner to intrinsically understand how the whole operation works.

Granted, some establishments like to rip the piss out of tourists but they're very much in the minority. FWIW the service I got in the States almost universally shat on anything I get back here.

America works on a very different system to us and as Falsey says you need to factor that into costing up a trip out when you're over there. I have no issue helping out people who earn £3-4 an hour. I was able to get "free" drinks on a few nights out simply because I tipped reasonably generously when I bought the first round of drinks. I just shoved a dollar or two in the tip jar.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Slartibartfast » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:41 pm

[iup=3616266]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:If it's not the paying customers place to start that revolution then whos is it?


Some bars and restaurants have a 'no tip, we pay a fair wage' policy. Some small places, some big chains. Consumers can change this culture, of course, but if they're happy then what has it got to do with the British tourists?

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Victor Mildew » Tue Nov 18, 2014 6:17 am

More annoying than the tip thing, which just makes every meal/drink in merca 25% more expensive is the whole LOL INGLISH DON GONE TIP YALL attitude they have. We tipped the amount you're supposed to all the time and still got that everywhere we went. In Canada we went to a Boston pizza place and got such gooseberry fool service from one girl (ignored us most of the night in favour of a party table, gotta chase dem tips AMIRITE) that we didn't give any tip. strawberry float her, we were there a good 4 hours and we saw her twice, once to take the order and once to give the food, and she wants 20-25% of the total bill to go in her pocket..potentially about £30? strawberry float off.

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PostTipping restaurants in America
by mrspax » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:31 am

Ad7 wrote:LOL INGLISH DON GONE TIP YALL attitude they have.


Is this because you just genuinely didnt tip?

I spend on average a month a year in north america in various states and areas due to work and that entails eating out A LOT. Never heard of this - in fact, the fact you are British is a distinct advantage when it comes to getting good service. Why? Because we are perceived to be frightfully polite and would not dream of culturally offending our hosts.

New Englanders and Southerners are especially welcoming. Maybe one bad experience is tarring your memory?

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Victor Mildew » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:19 am

If you read the post I said I tipped every time and the amount you're supposed to. They still bitch about it AND often auto put it on the Bill as a service charge which when queried, they say is because British people don't tip. Well strawberry float you then, I'll auto give you a smaller portion of food when you're over here because 'all Americans are obese'.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Faust » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:18 am

If a waitress wants a tip from me then she's gonna have to earn it and show me some decent tits or sommin.

If a guy wants a tip he's gonna have to genuinely move the earth.

I expect good customer service whenever I am paying for a meal, I don't expect to have to bribe someone for it, and good customer service is adequate, I won't be paying any extra for a few more smiles.

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PostRe: Tipping restaurants in America
by Moggy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:13 pm

Tipping is the worst thing about America (other than all the stuff that is worse than tipping).


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