Tomb Raider I-III Remastered | NSW, PS5, Xbox, Steam | Out Now

BOR wrote:Looks great.

I'm sure the PS5 and XSX would be 4K with 60fps??

It is indeed 4K 60 on Xbox so I presume it’s the same for PS5

Zilnad wrote:

Jenuall wrote:If this was £15 I'd be all over it but that price is probably just a bit too high for me (especially as only the first game is really a classic...)

The controls don't need updating, they fit what the game is doing fine, but whether a modern audience can recalibrate their expectations to meet it where it's at is probably going to be a hard one

I can't believe the level of disrespect you have just shown TR2

I adored TR2 back in the day, far more than TR1 in fact. It's been 26 years but I can still remember little details like it was only yesterday, time sure flies

Preezy wrote:

Zilnad wrote:

Jenuall wrote:If this was £15 I'd be all over it but that price is probably just a bit too high for me (especially as only the first game is really a classic...)

The controls don't need updating, they fit what the game is doing fine, but whether a modern audience can recalibrate their expectations to meet it where it's at is probably going to be a hard one

I can't believe the level of disrespect you have just shown TR2

I adored TR2 back in the day, far more than TR1 in fact. It's been 26 years but I can still remember little details like it was only yesterday, time sure flies

TR2 fundamentally failed to recreate (or seemingly even understand) what was great about the first game for me.

Atmosphere, exploration, isolation.

The feeling of being alone in a space nobody has seen for generations. Having to methodically map out that landscape in your mind and understand the structure of the puzzle it represents for you to solve in your own time with only a few wild animals (and occasional dinosaur!) to bother you. A strange kind of peacefulness and symbiosis with your environment...

TR2 became all about spectacle and combat - two things the games mechanics were not built to excel at. Set pieces, vehicle sections, waves of goons to gun down, "modern" architecture to explore - it all went against the things I loved about the original. You kill more human enemies in the first Venice level of TR2 than you do in the whole of the first game!

I know some people love it, but for me it's not a patch on the original

Jenuall wrote:

Preezy wrote:

Zilnad wrote:

Jenuall wrote:If this was £15 I'd be all over it but that price is probably just a bit too high for me (especially as only the first game is really a classic...)

The controls don't need updating, they fit what the game is doing fine, but whether a modern audience can recalibrate their expectations to meet it where it's at is probably going to be a hard one

I can't believe the level of disrespect you have just shown TR2

I adored TR2 back in the day, far more than TR1 in fact. It's been 26 years but I can still remember little details like it was only yesterday, time sure flies

TR2 fundamentally failed to recreate (or seemingly even understand) what was great about the first game for me.

Atmosphere, exploration, isolation.

The feeling of being alone in a space nobody has seen for generations. Having to methodically map out that landscape in your mind and understand the structure of the puzzle it represents for you to solve in your own time with only a few wild animals (and occasional dinosaur!) to bother you. A strange kind of peacefulness and symbiosis with your environment...

TR2 became all about spectacle and combat - two things the games mechanics were not built to excel at. Set pieces, vehicle sections, waves of goons to gun down, "modern" architecture to explore - it all went against the things I loved about the original. You kill more human enemies in the first Venice level of TR2 than you do in the whole of the first game!

I know some people love it, but for me it's not a patch on the original

Completely agree. I found TR2 disapointing after loving the original so much. Give me no combat at all and just let me explore and solve puzzles.

Photek wrote:

BOR wrote:Looks great.

I'm sure the PS5 and XSX would be 4K with 60fps??

It is indeed 4K 60 on Xbox so I presume it’s the same for PS5

Nice.

Cheers.

Just noticed these have been given a tentative Mature rating in the USA, despite the originals having no BBFC certificate, and a suggested age of ELSPA 15, later reduced to a PEGI 12.

Day 1

KK wrote:Just noticed these have been given a tentative Mature rating in the USA, despite the originals having no BBFC certificate, and a suggested age of ELSPA 15, later reduced to a PEGI 12.

Maybe they added a nude skin at last, for nostalgia's sake.

I’m happy for them to keep the tank controls. I’m more interested in what they do about the save points.

But those concerns melt away because, lads, we’re going back to St Francis’ Folly.

Victor Mildew wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:I hadn't even considered the sound might be different

That is a deal breaker

This had better have the original music

Do the PC and PlayStation versions have different music/sound mixes?

I’ve seen people say over the years that some of the games were easier on PC because you could save anywhere, and the lighting was less dark so you weren’t as reliant on flares.

Many retro re-releases include rewind functions these days, which would sure come in handy with these. Am I remembering right that it was 3 that can kill you off within the first 30 seconds?

Victor Mildew wrote:

Jenuall wrote:

Preezy wrote:

Zilnad wrote:

Jenuall wrote:If this was £15 I'd be all over it but that price is probably just a bit too high for me (especially as only the first game is really a classic...)

The controls don't need updating, they fit what the game is doing fine, but whether a modern audience can recalibrate their expectations to meet it where it's at is probably going to be a hard one

I can't believe the level of disrespect you have just shown TR2

I adored TR2 back in the day, far more than TR1 in fact. It's been 26 years but I can still remember little details like it was only yesterday, time sure flies

TR2 fundamentally failed to recreate (or seemingly even understand) what was great about the first game for me.

Atmosphere, exploration, isolation.

The feeling of being alone in a space nobody has seen for generations. Having to methodically map out that landscape in your mind and understand the structure of the puzzle it represents for you to solve in your own time with only a few wild animals (and occasional dinosaur!) to bother you. A strange kind of peacefulness and symbiosis with your environment...

TR2 became all about spectacle and combat - two things the games mechanics were not built to excel at. Set pieces, vehicle sections, waves of goons to gun down, "modern" architecture to explore - it all went against the things I loved about the original. You kill more human enemies in the first Venice level of TR2 than you do in the whole of the first game!

I know some people love it, but for me it's not a patch on the original

Completely agree. I found TR2 disapointing after loving the original so much. Give me no combat at all and just let me explore and solve puzzles.

I mean, I was 12 and I loved the game, don't know what to tell you

Initially I was pretty hyped when this was revealed. A wee while later and things have cooled; I suspect that the games are far clunkier than I remember and I'm not sure that I'd pay twenty-five wraps for a download version. I think this is something that I'd look to get in a sale a little way down the line.

Victor Mildew wrote:Completely agree. I found TR2 disapointing after loving the original so much. Give me no combat at all and just let me explore and solve puzzles.

Yep, the vast majority of TR1 is running about on your own, your footsteps echoing, it was glorious for this.

TR2 had WAY too much fighting but also had it's quiet moments, I'm REALLY looking forward to playing them again.

The Venice and scuba diving levels really stick in my in mind in 2. In 2, 3 and 5 there was more of an Action Man/James Bond jet-setting influence to Lara, whereas the original and 4 leaned more into Indiana Jones and exploration (though there was an awful lot of that, and ultimately getting completely lost, in 3 as well). There was a much stronger narrative in 4, the best of the 5, and it focused on one style of setting (Egypt and tombs). If I were to rank them, I'd say 1>4>2>3>5. Even though Chronicles was much more enjoyable than 3, it was considerably shorter (PC made up for this with the addition of a robust level editor) and being the 5th straight year I'd kind of had enough of it by that point. The analogues sticks had imbedded themselves across the industry by this point as well, only exacerbating the feeling that it was one game too many.

Not so much from the PlayStation magazines, where the series continued to garner high praise throughout its 5 titles (and were then retrospectively criticised a year or so later, which was irksome, as if journalists at the time kept having the same recurring epiphany over and over again), but the Dreamcast magazines were a lot less forgiving of the controls even in 1999/2000. Official Dreamcast magazine said of The Last Revelation in 2000:

The Last Revelation is a very entertaining game, but in a very old-fashioned way. It comes from the old school of platform games when there were strong limitations to prevent you doing anything that would screw it up...

...the controls demand strict discipline. If you don't execute the correct technique for a long-distance jump, you won't make it. You can't just throw caution to the wind and try something daring. In fact you must even learn to save the game regularly, because some areas are guaranteed die-first-time experiences, and you never know when it's going to happen. The graphics too, have an old-fashioned feel to them. They're polished enough (not difficult with Dreamcast), but not particularly stylish.

The Last Revelation just gives you good, solid presentation. Not ropy, but not spectacular either. Some people have noted that it looks jerky at 30 frames a second. Running at 50/60 would have improved the background movement, but it isn't a big deal.

Ultimately, The Last Revelationjust seems outdated. It's good, solid fun, and for PlayStation it's great, but Dreamcast is a different standard, and we expect more.

7/10

and of Chronicles:

The greatest frustration of the game was, and is, its control method. Movement is never fluid. Never. Lara has always awkwardly bounced off corners and jumped directly up when you know you pressed Left. Every move must be meticulously programmed, failed, re-programmed, failed and finally programmed in a way that works.The step up, step back and jump method was always dodgy...

...compare controlling Lara to Super Mario 64, or even Rayman 2 - the control has always stunk, and transferral to Dreamcast hasn't helped its cause in the slightest.

All the ingredients are here: 3D levels, new toys, solid - if dated - graphics, and a half-decent story. However, the ingredients make a cake we're tired of eating, for no matter how many cherries Core Design squeeze into this gateaux, the sponge is stale and old. There's bound to be a hardcore band of Tomb Raider fans reading, and if you can tolerate the same game as you've played four times before with the above extra features, you'll probably be quite happy. But you deserve better. Nostalgically enjoyable though the game can be, we couldn't recommend you buy this above the majority of Dreamcast titles just because it's from a heavyweight dynasty. You're using a fantastically-powerful console - why should you have to play high-resolution PlayStation games with awful control methods?

6/10

And that was then. It'll be very interesting to see what Aspyr have managed to accomplish with the new optional control method, because there will be a whole new generation of players under 30 that'll be totally unaccustomed to this style of movement. Like trying to play an FPS on an N64 pad (or worse, the original D-Pad controllers of that time).

I wouldn't say it's quite as bad as trying to play an FPS on an N64 pad. The original controls work better in TR than, say, the original RE trilogy because the camera stays fixed behind you (IIRC), so turning is more natural. But if they add free camera control to these remasters, that could bugger things up.

I played, completed and loved TR2 before I ever experienced TR1 so that probably paints my personal bias towards the second game a fair bit.

I'll be ok with the old controls but I can understand why others wouldnt be. Mario 64 changed everything.

Compared to America, Super Mario 64 and the N64 didn't do massive numbers over here, so I'm wondering if Tomb Raider and people's familiarity with titles such as Jumping Flash, Croc, and Resident Evil allowed developers on the PlayStation and PC to get away with that control method far longer than they otherwise would have. The proliferation of analogue controllers on PC and PlayStation was also slower. What was dated on PSone by 1999/2000 would have been so in 1997/98 on the N64. For me I think the revelation of those analogue sticks came from Ape Escape.

I only really played 2 when it was released at the time and I never really clicked with it.
Had the PC version and no game-pad at the time, so it was all keyboard controls.
Combine that with the controls being a pain in the arse anyway it's not a surprise that I only got as far as the Opera House roof level.

I have been toying with going back to the series though and I have played a little bit of the Saturn version of 1.
Might be time.

In terms of controls TR is really the spiritual successor to the original Prince of Persia and its fair to say it's been left behind by the now industry standard dual analogues. However, having played quite a bit of Roblox recently I wouldn't underestimate young people's ability to persevere with shonky controls!

Have to echo Photek and Jenuall's love for the first game and disappointment with the second and third. I'll be honest, when I was twelve or thirteen I loved the sequels, but when I went back a few years ago the second was a real slog, because it went away from what it did best. Didn't actually get around to replaying the third.