Trans Women in Sport

Mommy wrote:So has anyone got a problem with sporting competition being open to everyone then? 100mtrs - irrespective of gender?

Looking at the 100m times, it’s clear that men are faster than women.

But it’s also clear (at the moment) that trans women are not winning women only races.

So why integrate all of sports to solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

But its 2019... let's create more problems.

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:I'm sorry you feel victimised.

I never feel victimised.

Apologies.

I'm sorry you don't feel confident enough to address the argument.

Moggy wrote:

Mommy wrote:So has anyone got a problem with sporting competition being open to everyone then? 100mtrs - irrespective of gender?

Looking at the 100m times, it’s clear that men are faster than women.

But it’s also clear (at the moment) that trans women are not winning women only races.

So why integrate all of sports to solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

Your first post on this topic was

It’s pretty much a non-issue. Transwomen are not dominating athletics.

If/when they do then maybe it needs to be looked at, but at the moment it appears to me to be just another way to attack the trans community.

It's not about the winning though, is it? I mean, a man has to put less effort in in training than a woman would have to in order to achieve the same results, correct?

Get out of here with your logic Mommy.

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:I'm sorry you feel victimised.

I never feel victimised.

Apologies.

I'm sorry you don't feel confident enough to address the argument.

No need to apologise either. Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response to the comments made previously. I'm happy to acknowledge my ignorance.

Mommy wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Mommy wrote:So has anyone got a problem with sporting competition being open to everyone then? 100mtrs - irrespective of gender?

Looking at the 100m times, it’s clear that men are faster than women.

But it’s also clear (at the moment) that trans women are not winning women only races.

So why integrate all of sports to solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

Your first post on this topic was

It’s pretty much a non-issue. Transwomen are not dominating athletics.

If/when they do then maybe it needs to be looked at, but at the moment it appears to me to be just another way to attack the trans community.

It's not about the winning though, is it? I mean, a man has to put less effort in in training than a woman would have to in order to achieve the same results, correct?

Professional and high level sports are all about winning. It’s kind of the point.

A man has to put in less effort in training to achieve the same results? I’ve no idea. So what?

A trans woman is a woman. It’s irrelevant how hard men train or don’t train.

mic wrote:In the abovementioned case against the beauticians, should they be expected to differentiate between pre/ post-HRT testicles… or should they just be expected to do their jobs regardless?

It's hard to say who is right in the Yaniv cases because it seems like she wasn't engaging in good faith. What appears to have happened is that Yaniv stormed out shouting (metaphorically - the exchanges were by email) "This is discrimination! I will sue you!" when the beauticians first expressed being unsure at how to proceed with a scrotum, meaning an honest attempt to sort the issue out didn't occur.

I think in general women's beauty salons should make every reasonable effort to see trans women, but there might be totally understandable caveats, e.g. "please let us know in advance if you have different genitals so we can make sure we have staff available that are trained in that kind of beautology" (Is beautology a real word? It is now!). If a certain salon is literally just a Mum working from home part-time, perhaps it's not necessarily reasonable to expect her to have those skills at all, so maybe it is OK for them to refer someone to a bigger salon.

It's not quite a "gay wedding cake" issue because you need materially different skills to wax a scrotum and around a penis, than you do to wax around a vagina; but it starts to look a lot like discrimination if salons refuse to accommodate trans women at all. A larger salon being run as a proper business with multiple staff etc. should have the capacity to work with a trans customer.

mic wrote:What if, in line with technological advancement, Paralympians start demanding inclusion and winning everything with their prosthetics?!

A new extremely cyberpunk Olympics would be awesome and one of the few developments that could actually make me watch the Olympics, which are currently - let's be honest - very boring.

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:I'm sorry you feel victimised.

I never feel victimised.

Apologies.

I'm sorry you don't feel confident enough to address the argument.

No need to apologise either. Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response to the comments made previously. I'm happy to acknowledge my ignorance.

Please let me know what all the facts are.

Apparently it takes all the facts before you reconsider a viewpoint you were taught when you were five years old.

Indeed, I needed all the facts before I realised that it was, in fact, the fire truck that went 'NEE NAW NEE NAW' and the police car that went 'NAW NEE NAW NEE'.

A valuable distinction.

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:I'm sorry you feel victimised.

I never feel victimised.

Apologies.

I'm sorry you don't feel confident enough to address the argument.

No need to apologise either. Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response to the comments made previously. I'm happy to acknowledge my ignorance.

Please let me know what all the facts are.

Apparently it takes all the facts before you reconsider a viewpoint you were taught when you were five years old.

Indeed, I needed all the facts before I realised that it was, in fact, the fire truck that went 'NEE NAW NEE NAW' and the police car that went 'NAW NEE NAW NEE'.

A valuable distinction.

You've made it clear that you know all the facts. Then you add on that condescending gibberish to belittle me. Go you.

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:I'm sorry you feel victimised.

I never feel victimised.

Apologies.

I'm sorry you don't feel confident enough to address the argument.

No need to apologise either. Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response to the comments made previously. I'm happy to acknowledge my ignorance.

Please let me know what all the facts are.

Apparently it takes all the facts before you reconsider a viewpoint you were taught when you were five years old.

Indeed, I needed all the facts before I realised that it was, in fact, the fire truck that went 'NEE NAW NEE NAW' and the police car that went 'NAW NEE NAW NEE'.

A valuable distinction.

You've made it clear that you know all the facts. Then you add on that condescending gibberish to belittle me. Go you.

I literally gave you a history of my views and how I came by them.

You said;

Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response

Which facts are you waiting on? Are you in the middle of a broad review of gender identity as it pertains to chromosomal alignment? Are you studying body dysmorphia in the trans community? Are you helping teenagers with their gender identity?

What facts are you waiting on?

Mommy here are some channels you might want to check out to get facts on what it's really like to be transgender. Not videos about the medical jargon, but videos about real life experiences of people who are trans.

Also, YouTube ContraPoints!

Lightwanderer/mic - thank you.
Ill check these out.

Awaiting the "strawberry float capitalism" gif.

Ironhide wrote:Awaiting the "strawberry float capitalism" gif.

It was posted a few pages ago.

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:I'm sorry you feel victimised.

I never feel victimised.

Apologies.

I'm sorry you don't feel confident enough to address the argument.

No need to apologise either. Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response to the comments made previously. I'm happy to acknowledge my ignorance.

Please let me know what all the facts are.

Apparently it takes all the facts before you reconsider a viewpoint you were taught when you were five years old.

Indeed, I needed all the facts before I realised that it was, in fact, the fire truck that went 'NEE NAW NEE NAW' and the police car that went 'NAW NEE NAW NEE'.

A valuable distinction.

You've made it clear that you know all the facts. Then you add on that condescending gibberish to belittle me. Go you.

I literally gave you a history of my views and how I came by them.

You said;

Once I have all the facts, I'll make more of a formulated response

Which facts are you waiting on? Are you in the middle of a broad review of gender identity as it pertains to chromosomal alignment? Are you studying body dysmorphia in the trans community? Are you helping teenagers with their gender identity?

What facts are you waiting on?

That's all rather passive aggressive isnt it? Are you trying to help me understand all this or are you trying to push me further away?

Mommy if you genuinely want to start this conversation with a clean slate, then go away and do whatever research you need to, digest it, and come back and ask any genuine questions you have. At the moment this 100% reads like trolling, you're not convincing anyone you're genuinely sorry for your ignorance or making any effort to learn more, you're just coming across as a dickhead.

Log off and do your "research" and maybe with a bit of reflection you'll understand why you've been reacted to so badly.

Karl_ wrote:Mommy if you genuinely want to start this conversation with a clean slate, then go away and do whatever research you need to, digest it, and come back and ask any genuine questions you have. At the moment this 100% reads like trolling, you're not convincing anyone you're genuinely sorry for your ignorance or making any effort to learn more, you're just coming across as a dickhead.

Log off and do your "research" and maybe with a bit of reflection you'll understand why you've been reacted to so badly.

Im sorry for my ignorance, 100%. Im not trolling.
Ill have a look at the stuff that lightwanderer and mic have suggested.
There is no need for me to "Log off" to do that.
If its okay to ask genuine questions then maybe you guys with the strong pro positions could tell me why this is the case?
Lets start again, huh?
Ill get more informed and better my understanding.