Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?

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Rubix
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PostTrophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Rubix » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:25 am

Before I start, I actually like Trophies however having the Switch in my life has made me question my need for them. I am currently playing Xenoblade 2 on the switch and I’m around 110 hours in, I am playing all the side quests because they are fun and entertaining and not because I get some sort of trophy for doing them and this makes me think back to games where I wasn't enjoying it as much as this one but would pump hours into it just to get a trophy. Why?

If a game came out on both consoles, I would always go for the PS4 even though the Switch is portable and I can play them when I travel away.
Recently I bought the Untitled Goose game on the Switch and this is because it wasn't announced for the consoles yet but I loved the game for the game, trophies be damned.

Now I don't give a damn about PC trophies (because I don't have many PC games) and I certainly don't about IOS games either.........so why do I about my PS4?

If I didn't care I would be spending more time on games I love rather than ones that are just "alright"

Thoughts? :capnscotty:

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more heat than light
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by more heat than light » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:29 am

Yes.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by ITSMILNER » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:35 am

I used to be fixated on getting gamer score from games on X360 to the extent I was renting all the easy 1000g games etc...

This gen however I couldn’t careless, I think the Switch has helped with this as most of my gaming time is spent on that system which doesn’t have an achievement system.


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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:39 am

It’s a fun meta-game, that’s been in place for fourteen years now. I think if it’s ruining anyone’s gaming they’re long past the point of no return. :lol:

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by jawafour » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:51 am

I don't worry about game achievements which is probably a good thing as it's clear that I'm not going to get many of them.

The closest I've come to getting a Platinum trophy is in Mad Max; I gained most of the other trophies but there are a few "racing" ones which are just a pain. Thinking about it, I got most - but not quite all - of the achievements in Fallout 3 on the 360, too.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Balladeer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:57 am

As a Nintendonly gamer, largely looking outside, I’ve long wondered something similar. In the few Nintendo games where there have been trophy-equivalents (Smash is the big one there), I’ve often done the things out of a sense of completionism rather than because I enjoy it. That I assume carries over to trophies etc., but more so because as far as I can tell you don’t actually get anything for getting them? For those with completionist tendencies, like myself, and with every game having them, that sounds like a nightmare! (Unless you can turn them off of course.)

That’s why whenever there’s a clamour for Nintendo to bring trophies to their new systems, I’m hoping they won’t, or will make them optional. They haven’t failed me so far I suppose!

(Don’t get me started on people who buy bad games that have ‘easy platinums’...)

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Parksey » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:58 am

I try not to get distracted by them, but sometimes the collector in me does err and do something just for the trophy. Like Rubix, I think it's much better when games don't have them, as you don't get those pointless hoops to jump through, or feel the need to "complete" the game by fulfilling an arbitrary list.

Let's face it, a lot of achievements are utterly points and just a prolonged fetch quest. Stuff like "Get 100 kills using weapon X" or "reach level X". For the former, they have absolutely no bearing on the game or gameplay whatsoever. For the latter, the game should be encouraging you to reach a level.

That one is probably the most important for me. In sick of achievements/trophies being in lieu of proper gameplay-based rewards. How many games just pop a trophy for "Hard" difficulty now? How about developers reward you by playing hard by offering unlocks in-game or a different in-game experience (think about GoldenEye and Perfect Dark's levels changed on higher difficulties).

Think about Mario 64 and collecting 120 stars. What's better, getting a trophy to pop when you do that, or having the secret of seeing Yoshi on the roof? I know there's no reason you can't do both, but I think the solo driver for a lot of people is that achievement popping, instead of the game encouraging them to eke out all its content and secrets.

The system isn't designed to benefit the gamer in anyway, no matter what you might think as you see some pointles numbers go up. They aren't an indication of skill, as they merely reward those with more time on their hands or more tolerance for crap.

Remember that Doritos game on the 360 which loads of people played as it gave an easy 1000GS? We are are on this planet for a finite amount of time, so do you really want to spend that time playing that game? And some are massive grindfests through mediocre games to get a few meaningless numbers or a little pixelated shiny trophy.

It's so utterly pointless. Some games did some quirky achievements - like Half Life 2 Episode 2 where you had to carry that gnome throughout the game - which is at least encouraging you to do something in-game that adds a challenge. But still, I'd rather that reward was in-game too, rather than in an entirely meritless trophy/achievement system.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Ste » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:06 am

I think they're great and I like the fact they make me do things I wouldn't usually have done. I think they increase the lifespan of games.

BUT if it's not enjoyable I won't do it. I'd never do anything just for the sake of gamer score.

They shouldn't ruin it for anyone. If they are the issue is with you not them.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by more heat than light » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:33 am

Parksey wrote:Remember that Doritos game on the 360 which loads of people played as it gave an easy 1000GS?


It was 200G, but yeah. ;-)

I suppose I should answer the question properly, since some of these comments...

Balladeer wrote:(Don’t get me started on people who buy bad games that have ‘easy platinums’...)


...relate to me. I don't really give a gooseberry fool what people think about it, I love achievements. I find the community around achievement hunting to be wonderful and friendly, I love that kind of competition that goes with it. And I find that the actual process of finding out easy lists, learning the best ways to get all the achievements etc to be as rewarding as playing the games themselves.

I've played over 1000 Xbox games now because of achievements, some of which I'd never have touched otherwise. There have been some experiences I'd never have had without it. And sure, some days when you're plowing through Barbie's Horse Adventure instead of Breath Of The Wild you do question things somewhat. But I wouldn't have it any other way.

It's just a different way of approaching gaming. People need to stop being so strawberry floating judgemental.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Balladeer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:40 am

Each to their own. I’m not going to tell anybody how to waste their time*, I’m just glad I mostly don’t need to experience them. (I also feel that the ‘it’s not them it’s you’ view is simplistic and reductive and it’s actually a bit of both, but then I would think that wouldn’t I.) I simply don’t see it, and this...

more heat than light wrote:And sure, some days when you're plowing through Barbie's Horse Adventure instead of Breath Of The Wild you do question things somewhat.

...cements that feeling.


*To clarify: I include all gaming in this bucket, including my own. Possibly not social gaming.

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more heat than light
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by more heat than light » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:18 am

But 'wasting time' is something everyone does. I don't get why it aggravates so many people when I choose to do it chasing Gamerscore instead of, I dunno, watching YouTube videos or something. Just live and let live.

I should also mention I've never played Barbie Horse Adventures. That game is rare as gooseberry fool.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Balladeer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:45 am

See asterisked point. :P So long as you actually enjoy your time-wasting, more power to you.

Last edited by Balladeer on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Trelliz » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:50 am

One of the main criticisms I have against them is that they disincentivise playing games in ways you come up with versus what the game recognises and rewards. Why come up with a challenge to play through the whole game using only X weapon or whatever if there is no 'reward' for it?

Also so many games have online only achievements which are now impossible because the community or the servers are dead.

Finally, as a fan of the Yakuza games I'm not sure I want to dive into several obtuse tile/card games just to get a platinum or whatever.

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Rubix
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Rubix » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:52 am

I think there are two sides. Sometimes games have trophies so you have to play the game a certain way to gain them (or have to replay the game) and this is okay if the game is short, you wouldnt want to do it on a jrpg though. And i prefer to play games the way I want to play it. Its part of the way we lose ourselves in games, if you are following a path just to get trophies than you are playing someone elses ‘idea’ of the choices you make.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:42 am

If you want to play the game in your own way - no worries. If you want to play the game to grab the trophies/achievements - also no worries. I don't see the problem.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Balladeer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:43 am

Genuine question from a clueless chap: can you hide trophies or achievements altogether? Can you avoid even seeing them at any point? Are they, in short, entirely optional from an interaction point of view?

If so there’s really not that much to moan about from anyone, including me.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:51 am

Not sure about trophies but I am sure you can turn off the notification of an achievement popping on the XBox. You certainly used to be able to do it. Then unless you actually go into the achievement screen, there's nothing that'll show the achievements on the dashboard beyond the cumulative score under your name.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Rubix » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:27 am

Corazon de Leon wrote:If you want to play the game in your own way - no worries. If you want to play the game to grab the trophies/achievements - also no worries. I don't see the problem.


I think you’re missing the point.

The point is that some people are playing games the way they are not enjoying just to pop that trophy, its not a problem per se but because they have a need to collect they aren’t getting the most out of their playthrough and/or even playing games just for the trophies.

Companies aren’t stupid and have designed trophies or easy trophies to sell their games

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Lime » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:32 am

I'm not good enough at games to choose to go trophy hunting, so I tend to ignore them. For me, they occasionally pop up as I've done something that to me is just part of the core game, and sometimes I'll check to see what it was that I'd done that was worth a trophy.

It's strange when I get an 'ultra rare' trophy, it's always by luck than any kind of concerted effort.

The only time I've every got caught on 'Achievements' is that ridiculous idle game 'Cookie Clicker', which I still have on in the background on my PC to this day. It's a sober reminder that getting hooked on achievements (for me) will come to no good! I can't give it up now.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:44 am

Rubix wrote:
Corazon de Leon wrote:If you want to play the game in your own way - no worries. If you want to play the game to grab the trophies/achievements - also no worries. I don't see the problem.


I think you’re missing the point.

The point is that some people are playing games the way they are not enjoying just to pop that trophy, its not a problem per se but because they have a need to collect they aren’t getting the most out of their playthrough and/or even playing games just for the trophies.

Companies aren’t stupid and have designed trophies or easy trophies to sell their games


So tell me what the point is then. The way you seem to be framing the conversation is that people who play games for achievements and trophies don’t enjoy what they’re doing, that they are mindlessly following the corporate selling tactics of big business and that this is having a negative effect on gaming.

But what I’m saying is that they are deriving enjoyment from popping the trophy. In some cases they may experience types of game they never thought they’d like (my personal anecdote about this is that I got quite in to boxing games through Fight Night 2005 despite having no interest in the sport, because I bought the game for an easy 1,000). The system has been in place now since 2005, so the cause and effect of trophy hunting/achievement gathering are well known in the industry at this point.

Who are you to judge the way that people want to play and the things that they derive enjoyment from? Equally, who are you to judge what constitutes “getting the most from a playthrough?” It might not be the same as what you like or consider to be fulfilling for everyone, but it isn’t harming anyone, and if there’s a fundamental change to happen in the way games are made because of the achievement system then you can bet that it already happened some time ago, given their age.

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