Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?

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Rubix
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Rubix » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:01 pm

Corazon de Leon wrote:
Rubix wrote:
Corazon de Leon wrote:If you want to play the game in your own way - no worries. If you want to play the game to grab the trophies/achievements - also no worries. I don't see the problem.


I think you’re missing the point.

The point is that some people are playing games the way they are not enjoying just to pop that trophy, its not a problem per se but because they have a need to collect they aren’t getting the most out of their playthrough and/or even playing games just for the trophies.

Companies aren’t stupid and have designed trophies or easy trophies to sell their games


So tell me what the point is then. The way you seem to be framing the conversation is that people who play games for achievements and trophies don’t enjoy what they’re doing, that they are mindlessly following the corporate selling tactics of big business and that this is having a negative effect on gaming.

But what I’m saying is that they are deriving enjoyment from popping the trophy. In some cases they may experience types of game they never thought they’d like (my personal anecdote about this is that I got quite in to boxing games through Fight Night 2005 despite having no interest in the sport, because I bought the game for an easy 1,000). The system has been in place now since 2005, so the cause and effect of trophy hunting/achievement gathering are well known in the industry at this point.

Who are you to judge the way that people want to play and the things that they derive enjoyment from? Equally, who are you to judge what constitutes “getting the most from a playthrough?” It might not be the same as what you like or consider to be fulfilling for everyone, but it isn’t harming anyone, and if there’s a fundamental change to happen in the way games are made because of the achievement system then you can bet that it already happened some time ago, given their age.


The question is are they ruining your gaming and the OP is my view. I think you’ll find if you read other peoples posts there is a mix of people’s responses on this. I am not in anyway saying they are bad or good.

Just because you feel strongly about something dont assume! Read my OP it says I a lot and not you! And my follow up post mentions that some people not everyone. Before you start throwing your toys out of the pram saying im judging the way people think you should have a better idea of the conversation

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:13 pm

Rubix wrote:
Corazon de Leon wrote:
Rubix wrote:
Corazon de Leon wrote:If you want to play the game in your own way - no worries. If you want to play the game to grab the trophies/achievements - also no worries. I don't see the problem.


I think you’re missing the point.

The point is that some people are playing games the way they are not enjoying just to pop that trophy, its not a problem per se but because they have a need to collect they aren’t getting the most out of their playthrough and/or even playing games just for the trophies.

Companies aren’t stupid and have designed trophies or easy trophies to sell their games


So tell me what the point is then. The way you seem to be framing the conversation is that people who play games for achievements and trophies don’t enjoy what they’re doing, that they are mindlessly following the corporate selling tactics of big business and that this is having a negative effect on gaming.

But what I’m saying is that they are deriving enjoyment from popping the trophy. In some cases they may experience types of game they never thought they’d like (my personal anecdote about this is that I got quite in to boxing games through Fight Night 2005 despite having no interest in the sport, because I bought the game for an easy 1,000). The system has been in place now since 2005, so the cause and effect of trophy hunting/achievement gathering are well known in the industry at this point.

Who are you to judge the way that people want to play and the things that they derive enjoyment from? Equally, who are you to judge what constitutes “getting the most from a playthrough?” It might not be the same as what you like or consider to be fulfilling for everyone, but it isn’t harming anyone, and if there’s a fundamental change to happen in the way games are made because of the achievement system then you can bet that it already happened some time ago, given their age.


The question is are they ruining your gaming and the OP is my view. I think you’ll find if you read other peoples posts there is a mix of people’s responses on this. I am not in anyway saying they are bad or good.

Just because you feel strongly about something dont assume! Read my OP it says I a lot and not you! And my follow up post mentions that some people not everyone. Before you start throwing your toys out of the pram saying im judging the way people think you should have a better idea of the conversation


I never threw my toys out of the pram and have already made several contributions to the thread. I also don't feel particularly strongly about the subject, literally my whole line of reasoning throughout the thread has been that I couldn't care less what you do with your game - you pay your money, you take your choice. :lol:

What I was doing, was responding to you saying that I'm missing the point, and also to this:

Rubix wrote:if you are following a path just to get trophies than you are playing someone elses ‘idea’ of the choices you make.


Because what I'm trying to get at is - what does this actually matter? I get that it seems to be affecting how you play the game, but that isn't really the fault of the achievements themselves. Especially as they aren't implemented in such a way as to obnoxiously push you in the direction of completing them.

My questions weren't meant to be facetious, and weren't directed specifically at you(you were simply the person I was replying to at the time) so apologies if it came across that way. Perhaps a better way of summing up my view is: Who are we, as a forum, to judge what people get out of a game and how they play? Why have several of the responses in this thread been disparaging to the point of being judgemental against people who do play games for achievements?

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Parksey » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:51 pm

To be honest, why can't you be judgemental about achievements and trophies? You can be judgemental and criticise about absolutely everything else about the industry.

We get judgemental about people who get hooked on buying FIFA Ultimate Team Packs, for example, we criticise MMO-style grindy gameplay that keeps players in a feedback lump, we bemoan publishers doing yearly releases etc.

It's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. If people want to enjoy achievements, then that's absolutely fine too, but I think you're allowed to criticise them and say why they aren't for you.

Anyone liking them should be prepared to accept that criticism. I play Destiny, and at times that has the same slightly hollow number-chasing that can be levelled at gamerscore. And some of the stuff is going to be wasting time. I like the game, but you have to a) make peace with the criticism levelled at it and b) accept that people will criticise it.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Gemini73 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:52 pm

No. I quite like it when I unlock a trophy and will sometimes hunt down easier ones, but I don't let them guide my play through of any given game.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by more heat than light » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:25 pm

Parksey wrote:We get judgemental about people who get hooked on buying FIFA Ultimate Team Packs, for example, we criticise MMO-style grindy gameplay that keeps players in a feedback lump, we bemoan publishers doing yearly releases etc.


These things actively make games worse though. Achievements have always been optional, and as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, can be turned off at will. No-one has ever built a game entirely around the achievement mechanic.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:33 pm

Parksey wrote:To be honest, why can't you be judgemental about achievements and trophies? You can be judgemental and criticise about absolutely everything else about the industry.

We get judgemental about people who get hooked on buying FIFA Ultimate Team Packs, for example, we criticise MMO-style grindy gameplay that keeps players in a feedback lump, we bemoan publishers doing yearly releases etc.

It's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. If people want to enjoy achievements, then that's absolutely fine too, but I think you're allowed to criticise them and say why they aren't for you.

Anyone liking them should be prepared to accept that criticism. I play Destiny, and at times that has the same slightly hollow number-chasing that can be levelled at gamerscore. And some of the stuff is going to be wasting time. I like the game, but you have to a) make peace with the criticism levelled at it and b) accept that people will criticise it.


You get judgemental about gambling addiction? I certainly don't. Nor do I particularly bemoan yearly releases or gameplay styles I don't like - I simply don't buy the games.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Manwell Pablo » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:40 pm

Parksey wrote:To be honest, why can't you be judgemental about achievements and trophies? You can be judgemental and criticise about absolutely everything else about the industry.

We get judgemental about people who get hooked on buying FIFA Ultimate Team Packs, for example, we criticise MMO-style grindy gameplay that keeps players in a feedback lump, we bemoan publishers doing yearly releases etc.

It's all fair game as far as I'm concerned. If people want to enjoy achievements, then that's absolutely fine too, but I think you're allowed to criticise them and say why they aren't for you.

Anyone liking them should be prepared to accept that criticism. I play Destiny, and at times that has the same slightly hollow number-chasing that can be levelled at gamerscore. And some of the stuff is going to be wasting time. I like the game, but you have to a) make peace with the criticism levelled at it and b) accept that people will criticise it.


I mean this is a little different.

I intend to post my full opinion in the subject a little later but Achievements are a back ground meta game that someone can pursue or ignore at their leisure and do not effect the quality of the game, and they do not effect the industry, other than publishers using them to sell bad games which also doesn't really effect anyone not buying it for the achievements.

People buying UT Packs are a blight on gaming, they've made EA totally ignore the vast majority of the rest of the game modes in FIFA and flood all the innovation into UT, not to mention set the blue print for the pay to win world we live in now, they effect you and they effect the gaming industry. As with yearly releases, they are compromising quality for commercial sales as they know their games will sell good bad or average. EA get a ton of stick for their practices but essentially all they are doing is answering a demand which is what commercial business's do to make money, so who's the actual problem?

Yeah sure you can say that they aren't for you and give your reasons why and that's is fair enough but their inoffensive and if folk what to spend their time going for them I don't think others should be telling them they aren't doing gaming right.

Last edited by Manwell Pablo on Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Lime » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:44 pm

more heat than light wrote:No-one has ever built a game entirely around the achievement mechanic.


Apart from this one:

https://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked

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Who needs gameplay when you have ACHIEVEMENTS? Don't worry about beating levels, finding ways to kill enemies, or beating the final boss... there are none. Focus solely on your ultimate destiny... doing random tasks that have nothing to do with anything. Metagame yourself with ease! Self-satisfaction never felt so... artificial!

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by imbusydoctorwho » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:02 pm

Ever since getting a PS4 in 2014 I have been addicted to getting trophies and whilst I'd never judge a game buy a trophy list (which I know some folks do), I do feel like I constatnly want to get a platinum. But since getting a Switch, especially this year I've calmed down on the trophy hunting cause I've been having so much more fun on my Switch.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Trelliz » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:33 pm

Gaming. When the fun stops, stop.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Jordan UK » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:00 pm

more heat than light wrote:But 'wasting time' is something everyone does. I don't get why it aggravates so many people when I choose to do it chasing Gamerscore instead of, I dunno, watching YouTube videos or something. Just live and let live.

I should also mention I've never played Barbie Horse Adventures. That game is rare as gooseberry fool.


I am jealous of your gamer score - I think how do you have that much time. I’m lucky if I can game for 5 hours a week.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Tomous » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:16 am

I completely ignore Trophies/Achievements etc and turn off notifications. It’s immersion breaking for me and I have no desire to try gaining them. When I get a game I decide what I want to do it in myself-whether that’s taking it to 100# like I’d do in something like Spider-Man because I enjoy playing it so much, or whether I just want to complete the single player campaign, like for example Resident Evil 7 and I’m not bothered about replaying and getting every single thing. Achievements never comes into the equation.

If people enjoy that though, go for it, play how you want to. I don’t really think they’re impacting gaming in a wider sense either because achievements to me seem like they’re tacked on to fit the style. I don’t believe they’re impacting game design.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Wedgie » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:20 pm

I’m a trophy hunter, and it doesn’t destroy my thirst for games.

I usually play through the game first, blind. Then if I liked it, I would put it aside for future play.

If it wasn’t for the trophies, I would have never played Last of Us on Survivor difficulty. That level of difficulty put a different perspective on how I play. I never used smoke bombs, but it’s an important tool in Survivor difficulty. Also Uncharted 2 on Crushing difficulty is totally different game from Normal difficulty.

Average games with easy trophies, I usually wait until they are in a sale. I generally avoid games that have terrible controls, or are a huge buggy mess. Some of those average games are surprisingly fun to play.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Rubix » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:11 am

Trelliz wrote:Gaming. When the fun stops, stop.


:lol:

I suppose the other question is, has a trophy or achievement made you really angry? And I mean an unhealthy anger

Just to back up my topic, I have played games in the past for trophies, i look back with fond memories and others with disgust. For example, I played beyond two souls on multiple playthroughs just for the trophies and I look back and think, that was a massive waste of time, I never enjoyed the game and I could have been playing something I enjoyed

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Kriken » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:05 pm

Nope. Despite having completionist woes from time to time, I haven't given that much thought to trophies/achievements/rewards. Back in the day I was baffled by people who got games just to increase gamer score. I prefer following strictly in-game metrics for completion, but I do find the pop-up notifications for when you achieve stuff kind of neat. Especially when it's something not very consequential - you just decide to do it for a lark but the game acknowledges it and there's some meta comment in achievement title.

As it happens I did get my first platinum the other day, on Nier Automata. Had heard a friend of a friend got it relatively quickly which motivated me to try since I really like the game. Honestly though I probably would have given up if I hadn't found out you can just buy the trophies with in-game currency (something which I don't think is standard? I'm somewhat new to trophies). Happy enough that I've experienced pretty much all the main and side story content though.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Balladeer » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:28 pm

Yesterday I started Ori atBF. I turned Achievements off on the options menu before starting the game. Reckon that should fix it!

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Corazon de Leon » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:56 pm

Rubix wrote:I suppose the other question is, has a trophy or achievement made you really angry? And I mean an unhealthy anger


The only gaming related thing that's ever caused what I'd call unhealthy levels of frustration in me is FIFA. I don't know what it is about it that winds me up so much, but it got to the point when I was in my mid-teens that a conscious decision was made to stop playing it regularly before I burst a blood vessel or smashed up a controller or something. Even now I'll only go back to it if it's for a casual session with mates and some beers. :lol:

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by OrangeRKN » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:07 am

Occasionally trophies will help direct me to get more out of a game where I want to keep playing, but in general I'm not really a fan. I very much appreciate Switch for not having an equivalent. It does sometimes feel like achievements take the place of in-game rewards, which I would obviously prefer.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Chocolate-Milk » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:50 am

For me, it very much depends on the gameplay when I'm trophy hunting.

Spiderman, for example, was an absolute joy to Platinum, because I so thoroughly enjoyed the travseral and moment to moment gameplay.

Yakuza 0, on the other hand, was torture. The completion list is so ridiculously vast, and some of the minigames are so tedious, I vowed never to attempt to Platinum another Yakuza game again.

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PostRe: Trophies/Achievements/Rewards Are they ruining your gaming?
by Trelliz » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:46 am

Chocolate-Milk wrote:For me, it very much depends on the gameplay when I'm trophy hunting.

Spiderman, for example, was an absolute joy to Platinum, because I so thoroughly enjoyed the travseral and moment to moment gameplay.

Yakuza 0, on the other hand, was torture. The completion list is so ridiculously vast, and some of the minigames are so tedious, I vowed never to attempt to Platinum another Yakuza game again.


I've considered trying to play shogi, mahjong or some of the other densely complicated card/tile games in Yakuza, but those games are massive enough as it is and I'm only up to Kiwami 2 with another 6 (including Dead Souls and Judgment) in the series already out with another coming soonish, plus maybe trying the Fist of the North Star game. I imagine learning them would transfer to real life skill, but then the trick would be finding someone else to play against

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