UK General Election 2015

Agreed, but that does not mean they could not help Labour secure a government by supporting them in a vote. I highly doubt they would oppose them in favour of the Conservatives even if Labour refused to allow them into a coalition.

People have been covering up UKIP posters in London with these:

Moggy wrote:

Shadow wrote:

DML wrote:I couldnt believe when the Greens said they wanted a £10 minimum wage. That is literally nuts in my opinion.

By when though?

It does need to rise. £10 an hour is about £20k p/a, which isn't an outrageous salary by any means. It would massively decrease the government's responsibility for supporting the poor (housing benefit, tax credits etc.) and move working people comfortably out of poverty.

Is it that much of a problem if cleaners and coffee shop workers are making £20k? It's still lower than the (current) average. Some businesses would struggle, others would face the stark reality that they would have to make a little less profit to give their employees a better life.

Personally, I think a better policy would be to enforce a link between the salaries of the top and bottom employees in a company. The CEO can only earn 10 or 15 times the salary of his lowest paid employee, for example.

Surely by paying everyone a minimum of £20k per annum (for example) all you will do is cause massive inflation? A coffee shop worker earning that much more will just make the price of the coffee rise. As things go on £20k will not look like a large salary and the bosses will just increase their earnings so that they continue to earn loads more than their staff.

The living wage is a nice goal to aim for, but it has to be properly thought out.

Only 5% of workers are paid minimum wage, the macro economic impact would be miniscule. Some small businesses would struggle or go under, but right now they're artificially supported by the taxpayer and if the work needs doing then the wage will be paid.

Generally I think enforcing a much higher minimum wage would act as a boost to the economy as it would greatly increase consumer spending, personal financial security and vastly reduce the welfare bill. It would also make it more realistic for more people to save for retirement and help defuse some ticking time bombs.

Also, it will not the effect on prices you imagine. Basic essentials will go up in price but more expensive items will probably go down as they benefit from increased sales expectations thanks to a larger market. Given that inflation is at a record low, some degree of it might actually be a good thing since a deflationary trend hurts job creation and inhibits expansion.

17,000 p.a. for forty hours a week seems very reasonable when top bosses are earning hundreds of times that.

Still filling a leaky bucket though as a lot of the extra money would get eaten by greedy landlords and utility companies.

Fatal Exception wrote:Still filling a leaky bucket though as a lot of the extra money would get eaten by greedy landlords and utility companies.

Those greedy utility companies that charge half as much as council tax for a service that is infinitely more complex.

Putting up minimum wage will have a domino effect if wages going up across the board. The net result could still be positive but it would need to be analysed to establish how much the real pay rise is.

Hime wrote:

Fatal Exception wrote:Still filling a leaky bucket though as a lot of the extra money would get eaten by greedy landlords and utility companies.

Those greedy utility companies that charge half as much as council tax for a service that is infinitely more complex.

Heaven forbid people should have to pay for the energy they use, and the maintenance of the networks and pipelines that get it to them, and the thousands of people like me who have to sit in call centres listening to people whinge about how we're supposedly ripping them off, as well as being moaned at about the call queues, where if we were to employ more people to answer calls, the prices would have to go up to accommodate that.

With that in mind, 11p per kWh for electricity and 3p per kWh for gas doesn't sound too bad to me.

I'm watching the Election Debate from the other day. Farage audience comment. strawberry floating cringe.

This NHS part. Good lord

Bloody UKIP, coming here, not learning the language.


The PM aint even british anymore.

Lucien wrote:[quote="Hime"][quote="Fatal Exception"]Still filling a leaky bucket though as a lot of the extra money would get eaten by greedy landlords and utility companies.

Those greedy utility companies that charge half as much as council tax for a service that is infinitely more complex.[/quote]

Eh? The average council tax bill is around the same as the average gas and electricity bill; both are around £1200 per year.[/quote]
Where pays £100 month council tax? Still doesn't negate the fact that people moan about energy prices all the time when they are paying a lot more for a far lesser service in the form of council tax. FE in particular has brought it several times and ignores any response.

You think the council is a lesser service? I'm not saying there's not massive wastage in most councils (there is) but have you any idea of the sort of thing they provide?

Hime wrote:

Lucien wrote:[quote="Hime"][quote="Fatal Exception"]Still filling a leaky bucket though as a lot of the extra money would get eaten by greedy landlords and utility companies.

Those greedy utility companies that charge half as much as council tax for a service that is infinitely more complex.

Eh? The average council tax bill is around the same as the average gas and electricity bill; both are around £1200 per year.

Where pays £100 month council tax? Still doesn't negate the fact that people moan about energy prices all the time when they are paying a lot more for a far lesser service in the form of council tax. FE in particular has brought it several times and ignores any response.

Mines around £110 per month (for 10 months of the year).

Electric/gas is around £200 every quarter.

I think my council tax is around £140. Electricity / Gas depends on the time of year. Between 40 - 70 per month.

My council tax is about £90 per month. I spend about £40 on gas and electricity.

Lucien wrote:

Hime wrote:

Fatal Exception wrote:Still filling a leaky bucket though as a lot of the extra money would get eaten by greedy landlords and utility companies.

Those greedy utility companies that charge half as much as council tax for a service that is infinitely more complex.

Eh? The average council tax bill is around the same as the average gas and electricity bill; both are around £1200 per year.

How much Gas and Electricity are you using? I pay £45/month for Gas AND Electric, whilst my council tax is £111/month after 25% discount.

Fatal Exception wrote:You think the council is a lesser service? I'm not saying there's not massive wastage in most councils (there is) but have you any idea of the sort of thing they provide?

A lesser service in terms of complexity. You can't compare the management of refuge collection, social housing,etc to the generating, transmitting and distributing of electricity, the transmitting of gas, the in depth maintenance, fault repair, testing, expertise, etc that is involved in running these systems almost 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Also, people have done amount of choice in that they can choose both their supplier and how much energy they use. People have no choice with their council tax.

Lesser was perhaps a bad word choice but it baffles me that utility prices are constantly attacked when they are incredibly good value.

SquintyMcSquint wrote:I'm watching the Election Debate from the other day. Farage audience comment. strawberry floating cringe.

He properly sounded like Cal when he said that.

Hime wrote:

Fatal Exception wrote:You think the council is a lesser service? I'm not saying there's not massive wastage in most councils (there is) but have you any idea of the sort of thing they provide?

A lesser service in terms of complexity. You can't compare the management of refuge collection, social housing,etc to the generating, transmitting and distributing of electricity, the transmitting of gas, the in depth maintenance, fault repair, testing, expertise, etc that is involved in running these systems almost 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Also, people have done amount of choice in that they can choose both their supplier and how much energy they use. People have no choice with their council tax.

Lesser was perhaps a bad word choice but it baffles me that utility prices are constantly attacked when they are incredibly good value.

Why would you ever need to choose a supplier though? It's the illusion of choice. All you do is pick the person who is trying to rip you off the least. Why would I ever want to pick who supplies the council services? I live where I do, so someone sorts out local issues for my area. It's not practical to have market competition. Same with utilities. No one physically unhooks my power or gas, why the strawberry float should I pay different companies for the same service?

I'm not sure why you're comparing the two. They are completely different things. Council tax covers:
Youth services
Libraries
Parks, open spaces and galleries
Leisure facilities, including swimming pools and recreation centres
Social care for the elderly, children and other vulnerable members of the community
Support for the voluntary sector
Planning and building control
Refuse collection, street cleaning and other environmental issues
Maintenance of roads and bridges
Traffic management and road safety
Parking services and control
Elections, registrars of births, marriages and deaths
Cemeteries, crematoria and mortuary services
Consumer protection
Economic development and regeneration
Community development services
Housing, including the provision of social housing, housing strategy and advice and services for the homeless
Housing Benefits and Council Tax administration.

So many separate departments and services. It's comparing apples to oranges.