UK General Election 2015

Our best bits.

Who are you voting for?

Conservative
34
22%
Labour
52
33%
Lib Dem
12
8%
UKIP
7
4%
Green
23
15%
SNP
18
11%
Plaid Cymru
1
1%
DUP
1
1%
Sinn Fein
3
2%
Independent
1
1%
Other (please state)
6
4%
 
Total votes: 158
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Hime
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PostRe: RE: Re: UK General Election 2015
by Hime » Mon May 11, 2015 7:06 am

Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool."

Also, happy Monday everyone!

http://huffpost.com/uk/entry/5925540

Daily Express And Mail Celebrate The End Of Human Rights, A Horrified Twitter Despairs

Two of Britain's tabloids have enthusiastically responded to Tory plans to scrap the Human Rights Act and renegotiate the terms of our human rights agreement with Strasbourg.

The party has announced a manifesto commitment to scrap the Human Rights Act introduced by Labour in 1998 to enshrine the European Convention on Human Rights in domestic law, laws first set up in the 1950s in the wake of the Second World War to ensure such atrocities never reoccured in Europe.

The move would bleakly leave us standing alone with Belarus and Kazakhstan - the only other countries in Europe that have chosen to forsake similar laws. Belarus "suppresses virtually all forms of dissent and uses restrictive legislation and abusive practices to impede freedoms of association and assembly", while in Kazakhstan freedom of assembly is strictly controlled and a restrictive law on religious freedoms remains in force, according to Human Rights Watch.

Whereas it is often recognised that human rights are intrinsic in the preservation of equal rights and are the very foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world, The Daily Mail and The Express have dismissed them as a "farce" and "madness" - focusing instead on cases where "criminals have made a mockery of justice." Amnesty International’s UK Legal Adviser Rachel Logan told the Huffington Post UK that such media coverage "needs to stop." “There is indeed a lot of madness and hysteria surrounding the discussion of human rights and that needs to stop. "It’s a shame that scaremongering and untruths surrounding the Human Rights Act have tarnished what is an essential piece of law for protecting and defending all of our rights.”

Why do you not consider that a good enough answer? I've seen how Labour ran the country and how the Conservatives ran the country and picked the one I preferred.

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Frank
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PostUK General Election 2015
by Frank » Mon May 11, 2015 7:27 am

Tomous wrote:The fox hunting thing is shocking, it really is.


Well, now's the time to start writing letters to your MPs to try and convince them that reintroducing foxhunting is a ridiculous thing to do.

It's still a democracy, so tell them what you think and how, if they do vote to reintroduce it, they can kiss any chance of being voted for in the future goodbye. If enough people do it they'll realise how backwards it is.

My local MP seems to just be a Cameron lapdog, but I'm still going to be telling her what I think about the whole thing.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Rex Kramer » Mon May 11, 2015 8:06 am

Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool."

Also, happy Monday everyone!

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5925540

Daily Express And Mail Celebrate The End Of Human Rights, A Horrified Twitter Despairs

Two of Britain's tabloids have enthusiastically responded to Tory plans to scrap the Human Rights Act and renegotiate the terms of our human rights agreement with Strasbourg.

The party has announced a manifesto commitment to scrap the Human Rights Act introduced by Labour in 1998 to enshrine the European Convention on Human Rights in domestic law, laws first set up in the 1950s in the wake of the Second World War to ensure such atrocities never reoccured in Europe.

The move would bleakly leave us standing alone with Belarus and Kazakhstan - the only other countries in Europe that have chosen to forsake similar laws. Belarus "suppresses virtually all forms of dissent and uses restrictive legislation and abusive practices to impede freedoms of association and assembly", while in Kazakhstan freedom of assembly is strictly controlled and a restrictive law on religious freedoms remains in force, according to Human Rights Watch.

Whereas it is often recognised that human rights are intrinsic in the preservation of equal rights and are the very foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world, The Daily Mail and The Express have dismissed them as a "farce" and "madness" - focusing instead on cases where "criminals have made a mockery of justice." Amnesty International’s UK Legal Adviser Rachel Logan told the Huffington Post UK that such media coverage "needs to stop." “There is indeed a lot of madness and hysteria surrounding the discussion of human rights and that needs to stop. "It’s a shame that scaremongering and untruths surrounding the Human Rights Act have tarnished what is an essential piece of law for protecting and defending all of our rights.”

Couple that with the fact that Michael Gove is heading up the UK replacement.

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Rudolphin
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PostRe: RE: Re: UK General Election 2015
by Rudolphin » Mon May 11, 2015 8:20 am

Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool.


Why do you not consider that a good enough answer? I've seen how Labour ran the country and how the Conservatives ran the country and picked the one I preferred.


Because it's not an answer to the question I'm asking. I'm not asking why you didn't vote Labour, I'm asking what made you decide to vote Tory as opposed to UKIP, or the Lib Dems or the Greens...

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Lex-Man » Mon May 11, 2015 8:43 am

Frank wrote:
Tomous wrote:The fox hunting thing is shocking, it really is.


Well, now's the time to start writing letters to your MPs to try and convince them that reintroducing foxhunting is a ridiculous thing to do.

It's still a democracy, so tell them what you think and how, if they do vote to reintroduce it, they can kiss any chance of being voted for in the future goodbye. If enough people do it they'll realise how backwards it is.

My local MP seems to just be a Cameron lapdog, but I'm still going to be telling her what I think about the whole thing.


It's also going to be a very vote and it should be possible to convince the Tories in marginal seats, especially London and other city seats, that it's not in their best interest to vote for a reintroduction of fox hunting. I think it really could go either way TBH.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: RE: Re: UK General Election 2015
by Lex-Man » Mon May 11, 2015 8:46 am

Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool.


Why do you not consider that a good enough answer? I've seen how Labour ran the country and how the Conservatives ran the country and picked the one I preferred.


Because it's not an answer to the question I'm asking. I'm not asking why you didn't vote Labour, I'm asking what made you decide to vote Tory as opposed to UKIP, or the Lib Dems or the Greens...


To be fair all parties had there fair share of shitty policies. Doesn't Labour support the snoopers charter and TTIP.

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BID0
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by BID0 » Mon May 11, 2015 8:53 am

Frank wrote:
Tomous wrote:The fox hunting thing is shocking, it really is.


Well, now's the time to start writing letters to your MPs to try and convince them that reintroducing foxhunting is a ridiculous thing to do.

It's still a democracy, so tell them what you think and how, if they do vote to reintroduce it, they can kiss any chance of being voted for in the future goodbye. If enough people do it they'll realise how backwards it is.

My local MP seems to just be a Cameron lapdog, but I'm still going to be telling her what I think about the whole thing.

I have the same problem with my MP. I usually get a token mail merge letter on headed paper and that's about it. It doesn't cost me anything to email him though so I will keep talking to a brick wall :lol:

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Rudolphin
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PostRe: RE: Re: UK General Election 2015
by Rudolphin » Mon May 11, 2015 9:01 am

lex-man wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool.


Why do you not consider that a good enough answer? I've seen how Labour ran the country and how the Conservatives ran the country and picked the one I preferred.


Because it's not an answer to the question I'm asking. I'm not asking why you didn't vote Labour, I'm asking what made you decide to vote Tory as opposed to UKIP, or the Lib Dems or the Greens...


To be fair all parties had there fair share of shitty policies. Doesn't Labour support the snoopers charter and TTIP.


Oh absolutely. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just can't get anyone to explain why they specifically voted Tory.

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Cal
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Cal » Mon May 11, 2015 9:06 am

KKLEIN wrote:Personally I happen to think the tax rate for the richest in this country is/was high enough already at 45/50%. Of far more importance are big companies & various individuals using loopholes to get out of paying tax. And then there are companies like Apple sitting on mind boggling sums of money who could easily start doing more. Not because they have to, they don't, but Christ they could certainly be putting more back in to communities.


Why do Apple get such an easy pass from their left-liberal friends? I don't think there's a more aggressive profit-driven, greedy, exploitative, tax-avoiding, profiteering Corporation in business today. It's absolutely shocking, yet somehow this sly, disingenuous organisation has captured willing cohorts of liberal left progressives to proselytise it as something above and beyond it's murky business and commercial practices (just don't mention the Chinese factory worker suicides). That useful idiot Stephen Fry is always waxing lyrical about Apple products, to give just one example. I find the launch of each new iPhone to be an excruciatingly embarrassing phenomenon: but for lefty liberals it's like a religious holiday. The irony of their shameless cavorting about is entirely lost on them.

It's creepy. And it's too hypocritical for words. I'm sure Apple products are objects of great beauty and design. I somehow don't think the aesthetic characteristics of, say, an iPad are entirely appreciated by underpaid, over worked Asian Apple factory workers.

KKLEIN wrote:While it is rather disgusting seeing the likes of Wayne Rooney earning more in a week than a lot of people will see in 10 years, a whopping £160,000 of that is still going to the tax man. And you can't say that isn't anything but fair.


I have raised this issue before, too. I have never understood the reserves of cynical hypocrisy and simple delusion required for an ordinary working class lefty to, on the one hand, condemn a Tory Prime Minister (salary: £142,500pa) yet have nothing to say about someone like Wayne Rooney (Salary: up to £300,000 per week). Absolutely gobsmacking. But not a word. :|

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Hime
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PostRe: RE: Re: RE: Re: UK General Election 2015
by Hime » Mon May 11, 2015 9:08 am

Tafdolphin wrote:[quote="Hime"][quote="Tafdolphin"]So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool.


Why do you not consider that a good enough answer? I've seen how Labour ran the country and how the Conservatives ran the country and picked the one I preferred.[/quote]

Because it's not an answer to the question I'm asking. I'm not asking why you didn't vote Labour, I'm asking what made you decide to vote Tory as opposed to UKIP, or the Lib Dems or the Greens...[/quote]
I did say that it was a process of elimination and why I didn't vote for those parties.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Lex-Man » Mon May 11, 2015 9:13 am

Cal wrote:
KKLEIN wrote:Personally I happen to think the tax rate for the richest in this country is/was high enough already at 45/50%. Of far more importance are big companies & various individuals using loopholes to get out of paying tax. And then there are companies like Apple sitting on mind boggling sums of money who could easily start doing more. Not because they have to, they don't, but Christ they could certainly be putting more back in to communities.


Why do Apple get such an easy pass from their left-liberal friends? I don't think there's a more aggressive profit-driven, greedy, exploitative, tax-avoiding, profiteering Corporation in business today. It's absolutely shocking, yet somehow this sly, disingenuous organisation has captured willing cohorts of liberal left progressives to proselytise it as something above and beyond it's murky business and commercial practices (just don't mention the Chinese factory worker suicides). That useful idiot Stephen Fry is always waxing lyrical about Apple products, to give just one example. I find the launch of each new iPhone to be an excruciatingly embarrassing phenomenon: but for lefty liberals it's like a religious holiday. The irony of their shameless cavorting about is entirely lost on them.

It's creepy. And it's too hypocritical for words. I'm sure Apple products are objects of great beauty and design. I somehow don't think the aesthetic characteristics of, say, an iPad are entirely appreciated by underpaid, over worked Asian Apple factory workers.

KKLEIN wrote:While it is rather disgusting seeing the likes of Wayne Rooney earning more in a week than a lot of people will see in 10 years, a whopping £160,000 of that is still going to the tax man. And you can't say that isn't anything but fair.


I have raised this issue before, too. I have never understood the reserves of cynical hypocrisy and simple delusion required for an ordinary working class lefty to, on the one hand, condemn a Tory Prime Minister (salary: £142,500pa) yet have nothing to say about someone like Wayne Rooney (Salary: up to £300,000 per week). Absolutely gobsmacking. But not a word. :|


I'm not sure they do. There massively popular but they do get a lot of stick as well for there tax avoidance, lack of green policies and poor treatment of foreign workers. They seem singled out far more than other computer makes IMO.

Also people are always going on about footballers wages being to much.

Last edited by Lex-Man on Mon May 11, 2015 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Poser » Mon May 11, 2015 9:16 am

Cal wrote:Why do Apple get such an easy pass from their left-liberal friends? I don't think there's a more aggressive profit-driven, greedy, exploitative, tax-avoiding, profiteering Corporation in business today. It's absolutely shocking, yet somehow this sly, disingenuous organisation has captured willing cohorts of liberal left progressives to proselytise it as something above and beyond it's murky business and commercial practices (just don't mention the Chinese factory worker suicides). That useful idiot Stephen Fry is always waxing lyrical about Apple products, to give just one example. I find the launch of each new iPhone to be an excruciatingly embarrassing phenomenon: but for lefty liberals it's like a religious holiday. The irony of their shameless cavorting about is entirely lost on them.

It's creepy. And it's too hypocritical for words. I'm sure Apple products are objects of great beauty and design. I somehow don't think the aesthetic characteristics of, say, an iPad are entirely appreciated by underpaid, over worked Asian Apple factory workers.



While I disagree (as always) with your OTT rhetoric, I totally agree with this.

Cal wrote:
KKLEIN wrote:While it is rather disgusting seeing the likes of Wayne Rooney earning more in a week than a lot of people will see in 10 years, a whopping £160,000 of that is still going to the tax man. And you can't say that isn't anything but fair.


I have raised this issue before, too. I have never understood the reserves of cynical hypocrisy and simple delusion required for an ordinary working class lefty to, on the one hand, condemn a Tory Prime Minister (salary: £142,500pa) yet have nothing to say about someone like Wayne Rooney (Salary: up to £300,000 per week). Absolutely gobsmacking. But not a word. :|


Simple explanation there (though, it must be noted, that the position of PM technically does not carry a salary ;) ) - football generates its own finances. Through sponsorship, shirt & ticket sales and, mainly, broadcast rights, football is self-sufficient. Complaining about a footballer's salary is a total non-starter because they are not publicly-funded.

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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Errkal » Mon May 11, 2015 9:19 am

ProPoser wrote:football generates its own finances. Through sponsorship, shirt & ticket sales and, mainly, broadcast rights, football is self-sufficient. Complaining about a footballer's salary is a total non-starter because they are not publicly-funded.


Yeah this, they get paid a fortune, but they also bring in a fortune from fans etc. If they didn't get paid it we would complain that clubs are keeping all the money and the players are being exploited.

It is a mental amount of money but that is just how it is.

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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Lagamorph » Mon May 11, 2015 9:24 am

But if player salaries come down, ticket prices can come down. This leads to fans having money to spend elsewhere which benefits the economy as the money is going into businesses who'll generate jobs and tax income through the entire supply chain, rather than just sitting in a hidden offshore bank account.
It may be a self sufficient industry, but it does so at the cost of the wider economy.

But of course it gets a free pass because "Yay football". Landlords on the other hand get all kinds of.criticism for being evil and greedy.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Mon May 11, 2015 9:27 am

Dowbocop wrote:
KKLEIN wrote:There are schemes in the NHS that I would like to start seeing implemented - billing people that book appointments that then don't show up for a start. My Mum works as a receptionist for the NHS and the amount of people recently that don't cancel & then just don't show up is a bit ridiculous. Fine them for goodness sakes.

This sounds like a very logical and fair policy.

However, for me it very quickly starts to fall apart once you look a bit deeper. For one, it would be very difficult to implement fairly. I'm sure you would quite happily charge a feckless stoner who missed an appointment, but an A&E nurse who had a car crash come in ten minutes before their shift ended should be cut some slack, yeah? But who decides where the line is? Bus late - leave earlier, or blame Arriva? Get arrested - tough luck crim, or innocent until proven guilty? Who has an important enough job to miss an appointment?

The obvious answer to this is to have some form of appeals process, where someone can collect all the bus tickets and other excusing paraphernalia and decide who has a good enough excuse to be let off. But can you imagine the cost of checking up all these (potentially) shaggy dog stories? Would you want to be the member of the admin team who had to tell a patient they weren't depressed enough to miss their appointment, or that they could have rung before the panic attack happened? There would also have to be an appeals process for the appeals process (or it could go to PALS). My GP surgery has a 95%+ attendance rate, and a fair penalty charge is generally thought to be about a tenner from most things I've read about the idea. How much money would you actually get, once you deducted the cost of actually extracting it from patients? Taking Squinty's 160 DNAs a quarter message - if you extrapolate that up to 640 DNAs a year and divide it by 250 (for a rounded approximation of working days in the year), you work out with, on average, around 2.5 missed appointments a day. That's £25 a day in £10 fines (assuming they're all eligible to be fined, less the administration of collecting it). Would that even keep the lights on in the surgery? :lol:

It could also lead to further disenfranchisement of society's most vulnerable. If you're living on JSA (or whatever it's called now...), where are you going to find the money for a fine from? Is the best way to promote healthy lifestyles to further demonise (and to all intents and purposes criminalise) people who are most on the edge of society? The people who are most engaged and most able will either pay their fine or kick up enough of a stink to get off (that includes all the naughty Jeremy Kyle Benefits Street dolescum lot that everyone hates). The patients who are less able to pay, cannot work the system as well, or have long term health conditions (reducing ability to attend whilst also increasing their need to do so), will either need to pay money they cannot afford to access the NHS, or they will not bother going until they have a much more serious complaint which costs much more to treat in A&E, and could cost them their livelihood (probably putting them into the welfare system) or even their life.

I work in a screening programme. This means we see patients who are in an at risk group for a certain illness, but have not developed any symptoms that would make them seek help off their own back. The earlier you catch these problems, the better (and cheaper) it is for everyone. Our DNA rate is probably a little bit higher than a GP (obviously we'd like as many people to show as possible!) - as you may expect, people with no symptoms are less likely to turn up than those receiving effective treatment for a problem impinging on their life. We're all guilty of it - I was a bit lax booking my dental check up this year until my tooth started hurting! If we started charging patients who did not turn up, it would be the oldest, the frailest, the least engaged with their treatment - and therefore the most likely to need early detection and care - that would suffer.

That doesn't sound logical and fair to me.


It is an unfortunate fact that the admin costs involved in any fines system will destroy most of the benefit of it. Morally there's a convincing case (people who miss appointments willy-nilly are fuckwits), but economically and practically, it wouldn't really work.

You're also right about who would be the main recipients of the fines. This is similar to the situation of removing benefits from people who don't make much of an effort to get a job. Sure, the welfare system does not exist to be a lifestyle choice and so morally there is every reason to cut such people's benefits. Practically, however, you're taking money away from those who can't afford to lose it so you only make the problem worse.

The answer is for both sides - Government and recipients of any public service - to live up to their ends of the bargain, whether it be supporting those in need, turning up for appointments or making every effort to find employment. Unfortunately, in a minority of cases, human nature is gooseberry fool and there's not much we can do about it without further exacerbating the issues.

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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Lex-Man » Mon May 11, 2015 9:29 am

For me the football player thing is the same as with actors/ writers and other creative professionals.
People are paying to see the stars. People go to see Man Utd to see Wayne Rooney the club makes huge amounts of money selling his image to magazines and commercials.

If people didn't want to see him they wouldn't go and he would be paid less. Or if there was some move to cap footballers earning it would only end up going to the already super rich club owners. I live in Nagasaki and when more kids here know who Wayne Rooney is than Maya Yoshida despite the later guy being from Nagasaki.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Mon May 11, 2015 9:31 am

Rex Kramer wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool."

Also, happy Monday everyone!

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5925540

Daily Express And Mail Celebrate The End Of Human Rights, A Horrified Twitter Despairs

Two of Britain's tabloids have enthusiastically responded to Tory plans to scrap the Human Rights Act and renegotiate the terms of our human rights agreement with Strasbourg.

The party has announced a manifesto commitment to scrap the Human Rights Act introduced by Labour in 1998 to enshrine the European Convention on Human Rights in domestic law, laws first set up in the 1950s in the wake of the Second World War to ensure such atrocities never reoccured in Europe.

The move would bleakly leave us standing alone with Belarus and Kazakhstan - the only other countries in Europe that have chosen to forsake similar laws. Belarus "suppresses virtually all forms of dissent and uses restrictive legislation and abusive practices to impede freedoms of association and assembly", while in Kazakhstan freedom of assembly is strictly controlled and a restrictive law on religious freedoms remains in force, according to Human Rights Watch.

Whereas it is often recognised that human rights are intrinsic in the preservation of equal rights and are the very foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world, The Daily Mail and The Express have dismissed them as a "farce" and "madness" - focusing instead on cases where "criminals have made a mockery of justice." Amnesty International’s UK Legal Adviser Rachel Logan told the Huffington Post UK that such media coverage "needs to stop." “There is indeed a lot of madness and hysteria surrounding the discussion of human rights and that needs to stop. "It’s a shame that scaremongering and untruths surrounding the Human Rights Act have tarnished what is an essential piece of law for protecting and defending all of our rights.”

Couple that with the fact that Michael Gove is heading up the UK replacement.


There does seem to be an assumption from some that the Human Rights Act will be replaced by nothing and we will lose all our rights, which is frankly stupid. I'm sure the Government will have many eminent lawyers drawing up any successor to the Act. As usual, the binary debate on the Internet is tiresome. Let's see what proposals are suggested and debate them then.

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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Dual » Mon May 11, 2015 9:39 am

I never once thought footballers get paid too much. Thanks for bringing it to my attention Cal.

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PostRe: RE: Re: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Mon May 11, 2015 9:40 am

Tafdolphin wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Hime wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:So, literally no one's going to answer my question? Eight countered my tax assertion, or tried (see Skarjo's reply at the top of this page) but it seems not a single Tory voter here can, or will, tell me why they voted for the right except "Labour are gooseberry fool.


Why do you not consider that a good enough answer? I've seen how Labour ran the country and how the Conservatives ran the country and picked the one I preferred.


Because it's not an answer to the question I'm asking. I'm not asking why you didn't vote Labour, I'm asking what made you decide to vote Tory as opposed to UKIP, or the Lib Dems or the Greens...


To be fair all parties had there fair share of shitty policies. Doesn't Labour support the snoopers charter and TTIP.


Oh absolutely. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just can't get anyone to explain why they specifically voted Tory.


I voted Tory primarily because I believe that they will do a much better job of running the economy than Ed Miliband. As Peter Mandelson said on Andrew Marr yesterday, Ed's 'Predators and Producers' speech was a load of rubbish. I support aspiration and helping people up in life, rather than the politics of envy and driving successful people down. As the director of a small business I want competitive business taxes and a minimum of red tape, and want to be regarded as a help to the economy rather than a potential hindrance. While I believe wholeheartedly in social justice and equality, I don't agree with Ed's idea of progressive politics. I think that the Tories can help in this area, despite the rhetoric of their opponents. I also don't believe that the NHS is in danger in Conservative hands.

Ed's sums didn't add up and I didn't believe for a second that he was going to clear the deficit. The negative side of the Tory campaign for me comes with the uncertainty over where the £12 billion of welfare cuts will come. If these are draconian and cause real hardship, then I may change my vote in future, particularly if Labour abandons its flirtation with going further left (where there aren't the votes, no matter what Twitter thinks) and returns to a more Blairite stance. Indeed, when it was Blairism versus Cameron's stated 'Compassionate Conservatism' after he got the leadership there was a real choice for me, so I'm hoping that both sides shave off their edges a bit.

Overall I think it's good that the Tories get 5 years to clear the deficit. If there is no deficit by the time of the next election, then we can have a real debate on how would be best to run the country with that albatross gone from our necks. I'm looking forward to that, as no party in its current form has all the answers and I enjoy reading all the arguments for different policies.

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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Mon May 11, 2015 9:44 am

Cal wrote:
Why do Apple get such an easy pass from their left-liberal friends? I don't think there's a more aggressive profit-driven, greedy, exploitative, tax-avoiding, profiteering Corporation in business today. It's absolutely shocking, yet somehow this sly, disingenuous organisation has captured willing cohorts of liberal left progressives to proselytise it as something above and beyond it's murky business and commercial practices (just don't mention the Chinese factory worker suicides). That useful idiot Stephen Fry is always waxing lyrical about Apple products, to give just one example. I find the launch of each new iPhone to be an excruciatingly embarrassing phenomenon: but for lefty liberals it's like a religious holiday. The irony of their shameless cavorting about is entirely lost on them.

It's creepy. And it's too hypocritical for words. I'm sure Apple products are objects of great beauty and design. I somehow don't think the aesthetic characteristics of, say, an iPad are entirely appreciated by underpaid, over worked Asian Apple factory workers.


Lots of your usual hyperbole and buzzwords but as usual very light on fact. Stephen Fry loves Apple (true) what other evidence do you have for your claims that the left ignore Apple's tax dodging and abuses?

To help you out, here are some left wing sources that do question and criticise Apple. I am sure you will be able to supply some that are protecting Apple?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/app ... wo-4344344

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... ons-scheme

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... rk-ireland

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... hone-plant

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... na-factory

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ip ... rs-4416067

And then I got bored looking as there is an overwhelming number of left wing reports on Apple tax dodging and abusing workers. But sure Cal, hold up Stephen Fry as the spokesman for everyone to the left of yourself.

Cal wrote:I have raised this issue before, too. I have never understood the reserves of cynical hypocrisy and simple delusion required for an ordinary working class lefty to, on the one hand, condemn a Tory Prime Minister (salary: £142,500pa) yet have nothing to say about someone like Wayne Rooney (Salary: up to £300,000 per week). Absolutely gobsmacking. But not a word. :|


Again very little evidence or facts here. Are you trying to say that only left wing people like football? Are you trying to say that nobody that likes football (or that is on the left of politics) ever complains about footballers wages? As a Tory/UKIP supporter are you trying to argue that a public servant (the Prime Minister) should earn more than somebody in the private sector (a footballer)? Do you think that in a free market there should be wage caps?

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