Page 43 of 73

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:59 pm
by Garth

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:07 pm
by TV Dinner
Are there any moderates left in the parliamentary conservative party?

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:16 pm
by Samuel_1
Lex-Man wrote:I know it's anecdotal but a lot of people I know seem to have flipped Labour supporting. A lot of people seemed to be leaning Green.

Unless they're in an area where the Greens have any sort of chance, they really should stick with Labour.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:18 pm
by Samuel_1
Lagamorph wrote:I can certainly see where the stats for thinking Corbyn is indecisive come from. It's an unfortunate effect of years of fence sitting and was inevitably going to lead to that kind of perception. He's going to need to do a LOT to get rid of that image in a short amount of time.

Labour has always wanted to negotiate their own deal, so I'm not sure it was fence sitting. They have had the policy of a second referendum for some time now.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:34 pm
by Garth

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:41 pm
by KK
Panic stations at The Moan tomorrow:




Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:59 pm
by Garth

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:35 pm
by Samuel_1
KK wrote:Panic stations at The Moan tomorrow:




Since when has investment in infrastructure, a moderate higher rate tax rise (still below the Thatcherite era rate) been hard left. I am so sick of these people painting Corbyn's policies as hard left lunacy. They are perfectly achievable socially democratic policies. What makes me more angry is that so many people believe this sort of rhetoric.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:55 am
by Meep
The thing that annoys me about these people is that they are defending a doomed economic system. The planet has innate physical limits and doubling the size of the global economy every generation or so is clearly no longer sustainable given the current push back.

The fact that no one wants to transition to a different sort of economics and just seems content to wait for inevitable collapse when the insanity we have now runs its course is quite telling. I don't think our leaders are stupid. They must know what is coming, so one can only assume they are banking on their own wealth allowing them to shield themselves and their families from the consequences of their behaviour.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:11 pm
by Samuel_1
https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:12 pm
by Monkey Man

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:16 pm
by Moggy
Samuel_1 wrote:https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.


How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/


Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:56 pm
by Samuel_1
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.


How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/


Looking through that, the vast majority of cases take place before the publication of the linked research. I did say there are instances of AS in the party that need to be dealt with. I am not belittling the magnitude of the problem, I am pointing out that the prevailing narrative, that Labour are more antisemitic than other parties, is false. I assume you have seen Boris and others in the Tory leadership, call out Labour for their horrendous antisemitism? They are clearly using it as a weapon, in reality they do not care about the subject, it is a stick to beat an opponent with.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:57 pm
by Lagamorph
Monkey Man wrote:

I wonder if (hope) the entire report is going to leak before the election.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:02 pm
by Moggy
Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.


How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/


Looking through that, the vast majority of cases take place before the publication of the linked research. I did say there are instances of AS in the party that need to be dealt with. I am not belittling the magnitude of the problem, I am pointing out that the prevailing narrative, that Labour are more antisemitic than other parties, is false. I assume you have seen Boris and others in the Tory leadership, call out Labour for their horrendous antisemitism? They are clearly using it as a weapon, in reality they do not care about the subject, it is a stick to beat an opponent with.


The website you linked to doesn’t show that it’s false to say Labour are more antisemitic. The other parties have their problems with it, but Labour take a massive bashing from that website.

I don’t doubt Johnson is using it as a weapon and I don’t believe Johnson cares. But that site shows there is a very real problem there, far greater than you are making out. And, again, that was the site you linked to.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:07 pm
by Garth
Fury as decision on police inquiry into PM shelved until after election

The scandal over Boris Johnson’s friendship with technology entrepreneur Jennifer Arcuri was reignited on Saturday after the Observer revealed that the independent police watchdog has delayed its announcement on whether the PM should face an investigation into possible criminal misconduct until after the election.

The decision prompted fury from Westminster politicians and London assembly members who said it appeared that a ruling had been “suppressed” in order to protect Johnson from potentially damaging headlines at a crucial stage of the election campaign.

In a private meeting held before parliament was dissolved last week, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) officials agreed not to announce whether they were going to investigate “possible criminality” over allegations about a conflict of interest in Johnson’s dealings while mayor of London with US businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri until after the election.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... estigation

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:12 pm
by Karl_
@Samuel: This is a pretty sizeable self-own, you should really check what websites say about Labour if you're going to use them to defend Labour. No-one was even really talking about it until you brought it up. :lol:

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:21 pm
by Samuel_1
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.


How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/


Looking through that, the vast majority of cases take place before the publication of the linked research. I did say there are instances of AS in the party that need to be dealt with. I am not belittling the magnitude of the problem, I am pointing out that the prevailing narrative, that Labour are more antisemitic than other parties, is false. I assume you have seen Boris and others in the Tory leadership, call out Labour for their horrendous antisemitism? They are clearly using it as a weapon, in reality they do not care about the subject, it is a stick to beat an opponent with.


The website you linked to doesn’t show that it’s false to say Labour are more antisemitic. The other parties have their problems with it, but Labour take a massive bashing from that website.

I don’t doubt Johnson is using it as a weapon and I don’t believe Johnson cares. But that site shows there is a very real problem there, far greater than you are making out. And, again, that was the site you linked to.

This is interesting as the research does show more prevalence of AS amongst Conservative voters, but more instances of AS amongst Labour party members. Not a great outcome for Labour, no doubt. It is an issue, as I've said, but I think the notion that Jewish people would have anything to fear from a Labour government is ridiculous and I maintain that AS is being used as a political tool.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:23 pm
by Samuel_1
Karl_ wrote:@Samuel: This is a pretty sizeable self-own, you should really check what websites say about Labour if you're going to use them to defend Labour. No-one was even really talking about it until you brought it up. :lol:

I did read the research in isolation to be fair.

Re: UK General Election, 12th December 2019     | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical votin

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:29 pm
by Moggy
Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.


How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/


Looking through that, the vast majority of cases take place before the publication of the linked research. I did say there are instances of AS in the party that need to be dealt with. I am not belittling the magnitude of the problem, I am pointing out that the prevailing narrative, that Labour are more antisemitic than other parties, is false. I assume you have seen Boris and others in the Tory leadership, call out Labour for their horrendous antisemitism? They are clearly using it as a weapon, in reality they do not care about the subject, it is a stick to beat an opponent with.


The website you linked to doesn’t show that it’s false to say Labour are more antisemitic. The other parties have their problems with it, but Labour take a massive bashing from that website.

I don’t doubt Johnson is using it as a weapon and I don’t believe Johnson cares. But that site shows there is a very real problem there, far greater than you are making out. And, again, that was the site you linked to.

This is interesting as the research does show more prevalence of AS amongst Conservative voters, but more instances of AS amongst Labour party members. Not a great outcome for Labour, no doubt. It is an issue, as I've said, but I think the notion that Jewish people would have anything to fear from a Labour government is ridiculous and I maintain that AS is being used as a political tool.


Again I am basing my comments on the website of the organisation you used to defend Labour’s record on this issue.