UK General Election, 12th December 2019 | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical voting

[Samuel_1]

https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.

How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/

Looking through that, the vast majority of cases take place before the publication of the linked research. I did say there are instances of AS in the party that need to be dealt with. I am not belittling the magnitude of the problem, I am pointing out that the prevailing narrative, that Labour are more antisemitic than other parties, is false. I assume you have seen Boris and others in the Tory leadership, call out Labour for their horrendous antisemitism? They are clearly using it as a weapon, in reality they do not care about the subject, it is a stick to beat an opponent with.

The website you linked to doesn’t show that it’s false to say Labour are more antisemitic. The other parties have their problems with it, but Labour take a massive bashing from that website.

I don’t doubt Johnson is using it as a weapon and I don’t believe Johnson cares. But that site shows there is a very real problem there, far greater than you are making out. And, again, that was the site you linked to.

This is interesting as the research does show more prevalence of AS amongst Conservative voters, but more instances of AS amongst Labour party members. Not a great outcome for Labour, no doubt. It is an issue, as I've said, but I think the notion that Jewish people would have anything to fear from a Labour government is ridiculous and I maintain that AS is being used as a political tool.

Again I am basing my comments on the website of the organisation you used to defend Labour’s record on this issue.

Fair enough, what can I say, I read the research pdf in isolation and drew conclusions based on that, if you're looking to score points, you have succeeded in scoring one here.

[Moggy]

https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf

This research is a couple of years old, but what it shows it that the Tories and certain sections of the media have deliberately weaponized the issue of antisemitism to use against the Labour party. There are examples of such behaviour in the Labour party and such behaviour should be eradicated. However, the research actually reveals that AS is more prevalent among Conservatives. It also shows that the perception of the public is that Labour has more of a problem with the issue. This is simply indicates that the Conservative party and the right wing press have been effective in their spurious narrative.

How about their current verdict on Labour?

The supposedly anti-racist Labour Party has shamed itself by failing to firmly and consistently address antisemitism, even proving incapable of expelling a Holocaust revisionist, a senior MP who said that “Jewish money” controls the Conservative Party, and another prominent official who claimed that Jews were “among the chief financiers of the slave trade”. It has compounded its antisemitism problem by shrouding all disciplinary matters in secrecy under guidelines introduced in the wake of Baroness Chakrabarti’s report into antisemitism, thus concealing the fact that it has failed to address antisemitism within its ranks. Furthermore, senior figures commonly deploy the so-called ‘Livingstone Formulation’ to claim that the Jewish community’s collective complaints of antisemitism are essentially fabricated for concealed political purposes. The Labour Party has adopted the International Definition of Antisemitism.

https://antisemitism.uk/politics/labour/

Looking through that, the vast majority of cases take place before the publication of the linked research. I did say there are instances of AS in the party that need to be dealt with. I am not belittling the magnitude of the problem, I am pointing out that the prevailing narrative, that Labour are more antisemitic than other parties, is false. I assume you have seen Boris and others in the Tory leadership, call out Labour for their horrendous antisemitism? They are clearly using it as a weapon, in reality they do not care about the subject, it is a stick to beat an opponent with.

The website you linked to doesn’t show that it’s false to say Labour are more antisemitic. The other parties have their problems with it, but Labour take a massive bashing from that website.

I don’t doubt Johnson is using it as a weapon and I don’t believe Johnson cares. But that site shows there is a very real problem there, far greater than you are making out. And, again, that was the site you linked to.

This is interesting as the research does show more prevalence of AS amongst Conservative voters, but more instances of AS amongst Labour party members. Not a great outcome for Labour, no doubt. It is an issue, as I've said, but I think the notion that Jewish people would have anything to fear from a Labour government is ridiculous and I maintain that AS is being used as a political tool.

Again I am basing my comments on the website of the organisation you used to defend Labour’s record on this issue.

Fair enough, what can I say, I read the research pdf in isolation and drew conclusions based on that, if you're looking to score points, you have succeeded in scoring one here.

I’m not looking to score points, I want the Tories out! But if you’re posting evidence then research it and the source. I’m not the enemy, I just want Labour to do better, much much better.

But sweeping this under the carpet, hoping it goes away and posting evidence that you haven’t researched properly isn’t helping. It’s what Labour have done for a couple of years now, it’s not working.

[Garth]

Gina Miller's tactical voting site 'Remain United':
https://www.remainunited.org/

[Meep]

The British Labour party are the biggest political party in Europe, so it would be incredible if there were not a lot of anti-Semitic members. I refute the idea that there is some massive problem in the party and that the issue is much more prevalent than it is in the general population. Indeed, this is the conclusion of previous investigations.

What I find disturbing is the attempt of some to use accusations of racism for political ends, including from ultra conservative Jewish figures who should really know better. This is extraordinarily dangerous and irresponsible.

[Garth]

twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1193513025761955845

[Garth]

twitter.com/thhamilton/status/1193472712959762437

twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1193292878572916736

[Jenuall]

The control that the right have and general bias in our media is full on scary at this point.

[Tineash]

If only Labour had a more electable leader though

[Tineash]

Enjoying this a lot as well, just look at the dates

[That]

There is no freedom of the press under capitalism. Our media is owned by a small group of rich and powerful people and used to distribute their propaganda. It's just a different kind of authoritarianism - the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

[Meep]

The control that the right have and general bias in our media is full on scary at this point.

Yeah, even the likes of the Guardian are at it as they are part of the same well-heeled liberal bubble from which about 95% of journalists seem to come from these days.

No wonder so many people are angry and frustrated with politics at the moment. Any serious proposals for actually improving peoples lives are dismissed as too radical or unaffordable so despair and rage are the natural reactions. It leaves the field wide open for people like Farage, Trump and Johnson.

[Garth]

twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1193635882672304128

[Lex-Man]

twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1193635882672304128

and nothing of value was lost.

[Garth]

twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1193661899881226241

[Drumstick]

The Glorious Greens.

I don't know how anyone with a conscience could ever vote for an upper echelon, stage 5 banana split like IDS.

[Moggy]

twitter.com/AvaSantina/status/1193815813867888641

twitter.com/bojack70552409/status/1193812875049082880

Innocent mistake?

[Memento Mori]

The "Why u no use nukes" argument has started up again. While Brexit is certainly an apocalyptic scenario I don't think nuclear war is the most pressing issue of the day.

[Moggy]

The "Why u no use nukes" argument has started up again. While Brexit is certainly an apocalyptic scenario I don't think nuclear war is the most pressing issue of the day.

I just can’t trust a man that isn’t willing to vaporise millions of people.

[Jenuall]

How people still don't get that the nuke "debate" is pointless is beyond me. There is no scenario where using nukes is a win.

[OrangeRKN]

The theory of Mutually Assured Destruction teaches us that the only way to not get nuked is to be ready to nuke your enemy back, which is why all those countries in the world without nukes are now smoking radioactive craters.

Less facetiously, the status-quo of states not nuking each other is pretty nice so I can relate to people not wanting that to change. Doesn't matter though soon technology for detecting submarines will make our deterrent obsolete anyway