UK General Election, 12th December 2019 | Forum poll | Opinion polling | Manifestos & campaigns | Tactical voting

[Hexx]

What actually is a whippet?

I’m afraid to google...

[Mafro]

What actually is a whippet?

I’m afraid to google...

Londoners

[Lagamorph]

What actually is a whippet?

I’m afraid to google...

It's a breed of dog

[Snowcannon]

There's an economic argument for voting the Tories, the financial markets reacting positively to Tories winning probability suggests that they believe a Tory-led Brexit would be better for the economy than a Labour-led Referendum 2.0.

But there's no social argument for voting for them, which is why I've never voted them and never will. That said, this cycle I will not be voting. Living in the US I could still register for a postal vote but it's not worth the effort to vote in a very safe Tory seat.

[Skarjo]

Sorry Hexx, allow me to translate;

"My Pomeranian/Sheltie mix and I were so perturbed that I nearly threw my smashed avocado toast across the Watford Gap"

[Hexx]

What actually is a whippet?

I’m afraid to google...

Londoners

A whippet is slang for Londoners?

Or are you accusing me of being a Londoner? Cus you’re 100 + miles out

Edit - Oh....it’s a dog breed.

[Hexx]

Sorry Hexx, allow me to translate;

"My Pomeranian/Sheltie mix and I were so perturbed that I nearly threw my smashed avocado toast across the Watford Gap"

I don’t like this characterisation and would like it to stop

[Snowcannon]

The absolute state of some responses in here. It's honestly bizarre to read - you're just so damn sure you're right that anyone who disagrees must be stupid or evil. I don't really want to single anyone out but how can you not - Hexx, you should really seek professional help, for your own good. Your behaviour is not healthy. I hope the irony of taking the moral high ground whilst simultaneously treating Denster like something you've stepped in isn't lost on you. Shame on you, if you can feel it.

I understand why people are angry given that some Tory policies have genuinely really negatively impacted certain marginalised communities. That said, I don't think the tone of the responses is getting anyone anywhere. It is clear Denster will not be swayed, and there are millions of others out there just like Denster too.

[Hexx]

Swinging us back round to politics

Watching highlights of Swinson did she really just spend all her time apologising for everything voted for in coalition and pretty much most of their headline policies now? (E.g. immediate revoke)

Lib Dens deflating so fast

[Banjo]

The absolute state of some responses in here. It's honestly bizarre to read - you're just so damn sure you're right that anyone who disagrees must be stupid or evil. I don't really want to single anyone out but how can you not - Hexx, you should really seek professional help, for your own good. Your behaviour is not healthy. I hope the irony of taking the moral high ground whilst simultaneously treating Denster like something you've stepped in isn't lost on you. Shame on you, if you can feel it.

Post of the thread. Genuinely can't decide whether it's a pisstake or serious.

[Met]

The thing is, part of me agrees.

Then I remember that clip of Mogg saying concentration camps were good because people died in other places anyway and realise people are enabling him.

So strawberry float 'em.

[satriales]

There's an economic argument for voting the Tories, the financial markets reacting positively to Tories winning probability suggests that they believe a Tory-led Brexit would be better for the economy than a Labour-led Referendum 2.0.

But there's no social argument for voting for them, which is why I've never voted them and never will. That said, this cycle I will not be voting. Living in the US I could still register for a postal vote but it's not worth the effort to vote in a very safe Tory seat.

The markets might be reacting positively now, but they won't when leave the EU without a deal in a years time, which is what Boris Johnson will do if re-elected.

[Tomous]

Yeah, there’s absolutely no economic argument for voting Tories with Brexit planned.

[Moggy]

The absolute state of some responses in here. It's honestly bizarre to read - you're just so damn sure you're right that anyone who disagrees must be stupid or evil. I don't really want to single anyone out but how can you not - Hexx, you should really seek professional help, for your own good. Your behaviour is not healthy. I hope the irony of taking the moral high ground whilst simultaneously treating Denster like something you've stepped in isn't lost on you. Shame on you, if you can feel it.

I don't think there is any possible way that the Tories can be seen as anything but a danger to this country. Austerity, Windrush, the enormous rise in food banks, the enormous rise in rough sleeping and homelessness, Brexit, cuts to the police, cuts to the NHS, cuts to local services. I could go on for quite a while and that's all stuff long before getting to Boris Johnson and his long list of misdeeds.

So it is hard to look at people that support such things and not see them as stupid or evil. Personally I think most of them are just selfish, they want to avoid a little bit more tax and they don't care if people die because of it. And that's not an exaggeration, people are dying because of Tory policies. How can that be anything but evil?

But I do agree with you that shouting and screaming at Denster doesn't work, he isn't ever going to listen. Rational and calm debate with Denster also doesn't work though! Denster loves the attention and has a thick skin though so I don't think you need to call down shame on people that call him names.

[caseinpoint]

And as if to prove my point It's genuinely fascinating, if a little unnerving.

In a nutshell the problem is this. If you were right, your anger would probably be justified. However, you're all acting like this isn't a matter of opinion and can be objectively measured when it can't. I put it to you that it is entirely plausible to vote Conservative having considered everything without being stupid, self entitled or a bad person. Rather, it's a case of competing virtues, which others (more accurately millions of people) judge differently to you. Stop being so damn sure, develop some introspection.

It honestly feels like you really want a monster to slay, but the Conservative party just isn't the beast you wish it were. As a result, you just end up embarrassing yourselves with unfiltered vitriol.

[Skarjo]

And as if to prove my point It's genuinely fascinating, if a little unnerving.

In a nutshell the problem is this. If you were right, your anger would probably be justified. However, you're all acting like this isn't a matter of opinion and can be objectively measured when it can't. I put it to you that it is entirely plausible to vote Conservative having considered everything without being stupid, self entitled or a bad person. Rather, it's a case of competing virtues, which others (more accurately millions of people) judge differently to you. Stop being so damn sure, develop some introspection.

It honestly feels like you really want a monster to slay, but the Conservative party just isn't the beast you wish it were. As a result, you just end up embarrassing yourselves with unfiltered vitriol.

Just because you don't consider the Tories to be 'a monster to be slayed' because of your... 'competing virtues' doesn't mean that many people, such as the ones specifically detailing how specific Conservative policies are going to directly ruin their lives, are not completely justified in regarding them as such.

"Hey, this party is literally going to pass laws that will destroy my livelihood and my marriage so strawberry float them"

"Ooh Ooh oh no why can't we discuss this civilly. Sooo much for the TolErANt LeFt'

[Moggy]

And as if to prove my point It's genuinely fascinating, if a little unnerving.

In a nutshell the problem is this. If you were right, your anger would probably be justified. However, you're all acting like this isn't a matter of opinion and can be objectively measured when it can't. I put it to you that it is entirely plausible to vote Conservative having considered everything without being stupid, self entitled or a bad person. Rather, it's a case of competing virtues, which others (more accurately millions of people) judge differently to you. Stop being so damn sure, develop some introspection.

It honestly feels like you really want a monster to slay, but the Conservative party just isn't the beast you wish it were. As a result, you just end up embarrassing yourselves with unfiltered vitriol.

It'd help if you made clear who you were referring to. My calmer approach or Suicide's more in your face approach.

I would be interested to see how you can judge the last 9 years as anything other than an attack on the poor. Competing virtues? People have died, lots of people. What virtue is there in personally saving a little bit of tax, if that results in other people dying?

[That]

And as if to prove my point It's genuinely fascinating, if a little unnerving.

In a nutshell the problem is this. If you were right, your anger would probably be justified. However, you're all acting like this isn't a matter of opinion and can be objectively measured when it can't. I put it to you that it is entirely plausible to vote Conservative having considered everything without being stupid, self entitled or a bad person. Rather, it's a case of competing virtues, which others (more accurately millions of people) judge differently to you. Stop being so damn sure, develop some introspection.

It honestly feels like you really want a monster to slay, but the Conservative party just isn't the beast you wish it were. As a result, you just end up embarrassing yourselves with unfiltered vitriol.

Hi! You seem like a reasonable person, I remember we had a nice chat a while ago in one of these politics threads. I think you're about to get piled on a bit but don't take it personally - it's just the fact of the numbers, that there are more left-wing than right-wing posters here.

I understand if you can't reply to everyone, but if you get a chance, could you explain to me which competing virtues might be persuasive for someone who likes the Tories? I believe there's a strong moral argument for socialism, so I'm interested in your perspective if you think there is an argument for the Conservatives to be made there.

[Hexx]

And as if to prove my point It's genuinely fascinating, if a little unnerving.

In a nutshell the problem is this. If you were right, your anger would probably be justified. However, you're all acting like this isn't a matter of opinion and can be objectively measured when it can't. I put it to you that it is entirely plausible to vote Conservative having considered everything without being stupid, self entitled or a bad person. Rather, it's a case of competing virtues, which others (more accurately millions of people) judge differently to you. Stop being so damn sure, develop some introspection.

It honestly feels like you really want a monster to slay, but the Conservative party just isn't the beast you wish it were. As a result, you just end up embarrassing yourselves with unfiltered vitriol.

The problem is you’re treating the objective as subjective.

People are sure because they’ve got facts, figures and rational analysis to back up their opinions. They other side don’t. Opinions are not equal by default, and certainly not after examination. That’s why Densters now clinging to ‘I’m allowed to’ as his justification.

This isn’t ‘which colour is better?’ or ‘what’s the best Star Trek’ these are rather simple reality and data based truths.

There are some strawberry floating clever people on this thread. They’re certain because they [b]are]/b] right. Which they’ve shown and demonstrated repeatedly. You know that if paid attention to the thread. As every time Denster (or Mommy) tried their justifications collapsed under the slightest bit of scrutiny. (Again which is why we’re back to ‘I’m allowed to’ - which ironically no ones said he cant, just that people will call a spade a spade)

It’s also incredibly noticeable you don’t actually give any reasons an individual could vote for the current Tories for non cunty reasons. And even if you had one, and let’s pretend you did, you’re still ignoring or enabling all the other evil and foul stuff theyll do which will caused death and suffering to many. So even then on balance? Still a banana split.

[Tafdolphin]

And as if to prove my point It's genuinely fascinating, if a little unnerving.

In a nutshell the problem is this. If you were right, your anger would probably be justified. However, you're all acting like this isn't a matter of opinion and can be objectively measured when it can't. I put it to you that it is entirely plausible to vote Conservative having considered everything without being stupid, self entitled or a bad person. Rather, it's a case of competing virtues, which others (more accurately millions of people) judge differently to you. Stop being so damn sure, develop some introspection.

It honestly feels like you really want a monster to slay, but the Conservative party just isn't the beast you wish it were. As a result, you just end up embarrassing yourselves with unfiltered vitriol.

Just because you don't consider the Tories to be 'a monster to be slayed' because of your... 'competing virtues' doesn't mean that many people, such as the ones specifically detailing how specific Conservative policies are going to directly ruin their lives, are not completely justified in regarding them as such.

"Hey, this party is literally going to pass laws that will destroy my livelihood and my marriage so strawberry float them"

"Ooh Ooh oh no why can't we discuss this civilly. Sooo much for the TolErANt LeFt'

It's so bizarre to me how I, and others, can state over and over again the direct negative effects of a Tory win and for people who skew right and centrists to just...ignore it? Chalk it down to a hissy fit or nastiness maybe?

I'm not joking. My life will be directly affected by the Tories getting their majority. Others will be far worse off than me, those with disabilities or a reliance on long term medical care.

What are the Tories offering to compete against that? What is the "virtue" they are offering to compensate taking away the freedom of movement that allows me to live with my wife?

As Karl says, I'd love to hear the benefits you think would come from a fortified Tory government.