US Politics 2

Moggy wrote:

KK wrote:

Ban vaping but not cigarettes, which are the worse product, whether considerably or marginally so...I don’t get the logic.

I saw that headline earlier. It is crazy logic. E-cigs might not be great for you and they might be annoying to other people, but they are a hell of a lot better than ordinary cigarettes.

It’s like banning paracetamol while allowing people to buy heroin.

Disagree with this to an extent. What we need is data relating to how many people are smoking e-cigarettes/vapes that wouldn't have taken up normal cigarettes. Nice smelling and fashionable habits are going to pull people in who wouldn't have smoked normally. Also, we are extremely short on longitudinal data for e-cigs/vapes (it's obviously healthier than cigarettes... but to what extent?)

Mini E wrote:

Moggy wrote:

KK wrote:

Ban vaping but not cigarettes, which are the worse product, whether considerably or marginally so...I don’t get the logic.

I saw that headline earlier. It is crazy logic. E-cigs might not be great for you and they might be annoying to other people, but they are a hell of a lot better than ordinary cigarettes.

It’s like banning paracetamol while allowing people to buy heroin.

Disagree with this to an extent. What we need is data relating to how many people are smoking e-cigarettes/vapes that wouldn't have taken up normal cigarettes. Nice smelling and fashionable habits are going to pull people in who wouldn't have smoked normally. Also, we are extremely short on longitudinal data for e-cigs/vapes (it's obviously healthier than cigarettes... but to what extent?)

I am not sure what there is to disagree with. I am not saying we should encourage vaping, I am saying it is crazy to ban vaping but not cigarettes.

And it is definitely safer than smoking: https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs ... ark-study/

One of the best ways to combat tobacco use isn't to ban it, or even to make them unfashionable (though that obviously plays a part; packaging is now atrocious, and you can't smoke anywhere), it's to tax it to oblivion. All they've done now is drive the market underground, send people to another city/state, or make people who will now need their nicotine fix buy fags. All while clawing back no tax.

You'd think with the other problems San Francisco currently has (homelessness, rampant drug use via needles, houses nobody can afford to live in) that would take priority first.

Stupid law.

I know many people who vape now after quitting cigarettes, myself included.

I do not know of anyone who was a nonsmoker who has taken up vaping. Does anyone?

Vapes seem to give off way more "smoke" than regular cigarettes. I can be walking behind someone smoking a fag and you get the smell, but walking behind someone with a vape and it's like coming out of that door on Stars in Their Eyes. Quite annoying.

Preezy wrote:Vapes seem to give off way more "smoke" than regular cigarettes. I can be walking behind someone smoking a fag and you get the smell, but walking behind someone with a vape and it's like coming out of that door on Stars in Their Eyes. Quite annoying.

It is annoying when people vaping make a point of creating as much smoke around them as possible but it does smell a lot better than cigarette smoke and is also a lot less irritating.


Also, given this America and it's run by big business, are we sure the anti-ecig laws haven't just been lobbied for by the tobacco industry?

Choo Choo trains. They look like Choo Choo trains.

Tomous wrote:It is annoying when people vaping make a point of creating as much smoke around them as possible but it does smell a lot better than cigarette smoke and is also a lot less irritating.

It's not how annoying it is (although it is annoying), it's the second-hand health affects I most object to.

Albear wrote:Stupid law.

I know many people who vape now after quitting cigarettes, myself included.

I do not know of anyone who was a nonsmoker who has taken up vaping. Does anyone?

Me, kind of. For daft reasons too. We went on holiday to France last year and I decided I wanted to learn to smoke as all through my teens my wife (girlfriend at the time) used to take the piss and say I didn't know how to smoke as I tried it once or twice and coughed my guts up. And I have this stupid urge to want to say I have experienced everything life has to offer, so I want to die knowing I could actually smoke a cigarette, but I didn't want to get addicted and die of cancer from it!

So I learned how to smoke and was actually amazed at the high I got from it. Having never done any kind of drugs, that was a real eye opener for me. Honestly, the two weeks I had in France, the moments on an evening when I had one or two cigarettes with my wife unwinding after a long day of activity are my best memories.

So when we came back, I wanted to keep having that high from the nicotine but avoid the health risks. So I took up vaping. Its a really nice way to relax, and I'm kind of ambivalent to the risks as I think pollution and diet are probably far, far more risky to long term health.

I've also changed my opinion of smokers. I used to really dislike smokers, I thought they were some how dirty and naive about the risks. But honestly the people I have met whilst vaping while they smoke have been some of the most fun and interesting people I have ever met. They know the risks, but it's the social and relaxing aspects that they enjoy. Those aspects really aren't looked at enough. The non smokers in my office, I include myself in that, are so stressed and have an unhealthy lifestyle. They sit at their desks 95% of the day and don't socialise and generally it breeds inefficiency in my opinion.

I can only put that down to modern life, and lack of opportunities for people to just chill out and chat on work breaks, or quiet moments on nights out etc with close friends. Since vaping I have made loads of new friends, enjoy work 10 times more, and honestly the benefit to my productivity is untold. Instead of stressing over an issue for 30 to 40 minutes, I go outside with my friends for 5 minutes twice a day, come back totally refreshed and able to tackle anything.

I don't feel addicted at all, I could stop at any time, but I have read all the information on the health risks and haven't found anything conclusive that puts vaping anywhere near as bad as anything else that is considered unhealthy.

In case anyone was wondering about why the Ferguson riots happened a few years ago, or just about what life is like for minorities in America and the militarisation of its police as a whole, this episode of the Dollop is eye opening.

It's kinda long, but as a podcast you could look it up and listen to it on your commute or whatever. Most episodes are batshit crazy and hilarious (I couldn't recommend it highly enough tbh) but this? Sobering.



As an antidote, here's one of their best, funniest early episodes, on the theme of sports:

captain red dog wrote:

Albear wrote:Stupid law.

I know many people who vape now after quitting cigarettes, myself included.

I do not know of anyone who was a nonsmoker who has taken up vaping. Does anyone?

Me, kind of. For daft reasons too. We went on holiday to France last year and I decided I wanted to learn to smoke as all through my teens my wife (girlfriend at the time) used to take the piss and say I didn't know how to smoke as I tried it once or twice and coughed my guts up. And I have this stupid urge to want to say I have experienced everything life has to offer, so I want to die knowing I could actually smoke a cigarette, but I didn't want to get addicted and die of cancer from it!

So I learned how to smoke and was actually amazed at the high I got from it. Having never done any kind of drugs, that was a real eye opener for me. Honestly, the two weeks I had in France, the moments on an evening when I had one or two cigarettes with my wife unwinding after a long day of activity are my best memories.

So when we came back, I wanted to keep having that high from the nicotine but avoid the health risks. So I took up vaping. Its a really nice way to relax, and I'm kind of ambivalent to the risks as I think pollution and diet are probably far, far more risky to long term health.

I've also changed my opinion of smokers. I used to really dislike smokers, I thought they were some how dirty and naive about the risks. But honestly the people I have met whilst vaping while they smoke have been some of the most fun and interesting people I have ever met. They know the risks, but it's the social and relaxing aspects that they enjoy. Those aspects really aren't looked at enough. The non smokers in my office, I include myself in that, are so stressed and have an unhealthy lifestyle. They sit at their desks 95% of the day and don't socialise and generally it breeds inefficiency in my opinion.

I can only put that down to modern life, and lack of opportunities for people to just chill out and chat on work breaks, or quiet moments on nights out etc with close friends. Since vaping I have made loads of new friends, enjoy work 10 times more, and honestly the benefit to my productivity is untold. Instead of stressing over an issue for 30 to 40 minutes, I go outside with my friends for 5 minutes twice a day, come back totally refreshed and able to tackle anything.

I don't feel addicted at all, I could stop at any time, but I have read all the information on the health risks and haven't found anything conclusive that puts vaping anywhere near as bad as anything else that is considered unhealthy.

This is so weird.

The debates start tonight, 2am to 4am -

Night One: June 26

Cory Booker, senator from New Jersey
Julián Castro, former housing secretary
Bill de Blasio, mayor of New York
John Delaney, former representative from Maryland
Tulsi Gabbard, representative from Hawaii
Jay Inslee, governor of Washington
Amy Klobuchar, senator from Minnesota
Beto O’Rourke, former representative from Texas
Tim Ryan, representative from Ohio
Elizabeth Warren, senator from Massachusetts
---
Night Two: June 27

Michael Bennet, senator from Colorado
Joseph R. Biden Jr., former vice president
Pete Buttigieg, mayor of South Bend, Ind.
Kirsten Gillibrand, senator from New York
Kamala Harris, senator from California
John Hickenlooper, former governor of Colorado
Bernie Sanders, senator from Vermont
Eric Swalwell, representative from California
Marianne Williamson, self-help author
Andrew Yang, former tech executive

Shame that Warren got relegated to the kids' table of debates, but I think she'll survive the winnowing with ease.

twitter.com/mariuyehara/status/1144025047184621570

twitter.com/RobinsonCarol/status/1144006497397104640

What a monstrous country America is.

strawberry floating hell that's very upsetting

Dual wrote:strawberry floating hell that's very upsetting

The worst part is the line “charges against the shooter have been dismissed”, proving that this isn’t about the “unborn baby” but solely about prosecuting uppity black women.

That's pretty strawberry floated up.

I've actually started muting a lot of American political commentators from my twitter timeline. As much as I recognise the importance of publicising this stuff it's genuinely affecting my mood/mental health. What an absolute shitshow.

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1143892328236687361

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1143892329582997505

He thinks she’s black.

Won't somebody think of the flag