US Politics 2

captain red dog wrote:So Obama. Does anyone else feel like he seems to be going much further this time around than he did for Hillary? I know he has always seemed great friends with Biden, but it seems weird he is putting in so much effort this time around when he probably had more at stake personally in 2016.

That said, just hearing one of his speeches makes me wish he could still stand. He is one of the most patriotic politicians in the US, his speeches are always really inspiring and good-hearted. That's what amazes me about US politics. The republicans claim to be the patriotic party, but time and again it is democrat politicians that actually provide a vision for the "American dream".

Obama wasn't great but strawberry float me he knew how to make a speech that gave hope.

I wish he'd controlled Congress for both his terms, I'd love to know what he would have done if he wasn't constantly blocked. He wouldn't have ever been the real reform America needs, but I think they'd have been in a much better place.

Drone bombed more weddings that's for sure!

Moggy wrote:

captain red dog wrote:So Obama. Does anyone else feel like he seems to be going much further this time around than he did for Hillary? I know he has always seemed great friends with Biden, but it seems weird he is putting in so much effort this time around when he probably had more at stake personally in 2016.

That said, just hearing one of his speeches makes me wish he could still stand. He is one of the most patriotic politicians in the US, his speeches are always really inspiring and good-hearted. That's what amazes me about US politics. The republicans claim to be the patriotic party, but time and again it is democrat politicians that actually provide a vision for the "American dream".

Obama wasn't great but strawberry float me he knew how to make a speech that gave hope.

I wish he'd controlled Congress for both his terms, I'd love to know what he would have done if he wasn't constantly blocked. He wouldn't have ever been the real reform America needs, but I think they'd have been in a much better place.

I cut him probably more of a break than I should, in that generally change comes very slowly in America. He was screwed from the start because the economy was in the gooseberry fools when he took over, the US was engaged in war worldwide and hated and then he never really had control of Congress to make the changes he wanted.

So to come out of that with Obamacare, and a largely restored international reputation and a fantastic economy, it was just a superb outcome in context.

I wish he went further, but the restraints he had against him were boarding on the extreme.

As you say, he knows how to make an inspiring speech. When I look back at the US over the last 70 years, the only inspiring speeches I can think of are Kennedy, Clinton and Obama.

Tafdolphin wrote:Drone bombed more weddings that's for sure!

I dunno about weddings, but drone attacks is one area where Trump beats Obama.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/ ... -s-numbers

Tafdolphin wrote:Drone bombed more weddings that's for sure!

Wasn't that the plot of a Resident Evil animated film?

Drone bombings is my only real criticism of Obama. Its a dark and tricky subject, but I don't feel he ever authorised anything he felt was dodgy in terms of Intel in the way Bush/Blair did. Nor did he really target assassinations the way Trump did with Soleimani. I wish Bin Laden was taken alive, but at least Obama sent a team in to attempt to capture him rather than just drone bomb him to bits as Trump would have.

https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became ... ike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

Tafdolphin wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became-funeral-us-still-silent-one-year-deadly-yemen-drone-strike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

The trouble is all American Presidents are shitty.

Name a better President in the last 50 or so years than Obama? Trump? Bush (either)? Clinton? Reagan? Ford? Nixon?

The only one I would say was better without hesitation is Jimmy Carter.

America has appalling leaders. Which makes Obama a good one, even though he's a monster.

captain red dog wrote:Drone bombings is my only real criticism of Obama. Its a dark and tricky subject, but I don't feel he ever authorised anything he felt was dodgy in terms of Intel in the way Bush/Blair did. Nor did he really target assassinations the way Trump did with Soleimani. I wish Bin Laden was taken alive, but at least Obama sent a team in to attempt to capture him rather than just drone bomb him to bits as Trump would have.

Mass deportations, crossing his own red line to fund 'rebels' that ended up joining ISIS too.

I like Obama a lot as a person and best candidate of any country in my lifetime, but he was merely fine as a President. Biden will be fine too. But I think Americans, especially younger generation and working class, deserved the right populism Vs left populism debate that would have been Bernie Vs Trump. It would have been a much more emotional, relevant debate rather than kicking the can down the road with Biden. Kamala Vs Tucker Carlson in 2024 should be fun though!

Moggy wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became-funeral-us-still-silent-one-year-deadly-yemen-drone-strike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

The trouble is all American Presidents are shitty.

Name a better President in the last 50 or so years than Obama? Trump? Bush (either)? Clinton? Reagan? Ford? Nixon?

The only one I would say was better without hesitation is Jimmy Carter.

America has appalling leaders. Which makes Obama a good one, even though he's a monster.

Spreading it out who's actually a good world leader? I don't really think the UK's had any I'd discribe as good per say. Merkel, maybe.

Lex-Man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became-funeral-us-still-silent-one-year-deadly-yemen-drone-strike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

The trouble is all American Presidents are shitty.

Name a better President in the last 50 or so years than Obama? Trump? Bush (either)? Clinton? Reagan? Ford? Nixon?

The only one I would say was better without hesitation is Jimmy Carter.

America has appalling leaders. Which makes Obama a good one, even though he's a monster.

Spreading it out who's actually a good world leader? I don't really think the UK's had any I'd discribe as good per say. Merkel, maybe.

True. Arden in New Zealand seems decent?

Which only makes Obama rise closer to the top of good leaders. Even though he's a mass murderer.

Lex-Man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became-funeral-us-still-silent-one-year-deadly-yemen-drone-strike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

The trouble is all American Presidents are shitty.

Name a better President in the last 50 or so years than Obama? Trump? Bush (either)? Clinton? Reagan? Ford? Nixon?

The only one I would say was better without hesitation is Jimmy Carter.

America has appalling leaders. Which makes Obama a good one, even though he's a monster.

Spreading it out who's actually a good world leader? I don't really think the UK's had any I'd discribe as good per say. Merkel, maybe.

I like the Taiwanese President, Tsai Ing-Wen. Hopefully Taiwan is allowed to remain a thing in the near future.

Obama's drone policies attracted very sharp criticism from the left. Trump has increased drone strikes but removed the (very limited) accountability & reporting procedures that Obama had. The criticism has vanished.

This is a very very shitty lesson to teach politicians.

Tineash wrote:Obama's drone policies attracted very sharp criticism from the left. Trump has increased drone strikes but removed the (very limited) accountability & reporting procedures that Obama had. The criticism has vanished.

This is a very very shitty lesson to teach politicians.

Opposite strategy re: deportations. Obama deportation numbers are higher, but Trump deliberately publicises inhumane practices like child separation as a deterrent.

John Bolton came across as huge dickhead on Newsnight to Emily Maitlis.

His reason for not testifying in the Impeachment of Trump seems to be that it would harm his book sales to reveal the details for free and before the book was published.

Grumpy David wrote:John Bolton came across as huge dickhead on Newsnight to Emily Maitlis.

His reason for not testifying in the Impeachment of Trump seems to be that it would harm his book sales to reveal the details for free and before the book was published.

A Republican prioritized money over justice and the future of the nation and the world? And then they shamelessly admitted to it on TV after the fact, when nobody could do anything about it, when the world had moved on?

This is a brand new pattern of behavior!



Biden be a decent guy, yo.

Moggy wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became-funeral-us-still-silent-one-year-deadly-yemen-drone-strike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

The trouble is all American Presidents are shitty.

Name a better President in the last 50 or so years than Obama? Trump? Bush (either)? Clinton? Reagan? Ford? Nixon?

The only one I would say was better without hesitation is Jimmy Carter.

America has appalling leaders. Which makes Obama a good one, even though he's a monster.

Carter wasn’t a better president than Obama, he was useless, ineffectual on both a domestic and foreign policy level. IMO of course. He might’ve been a better person(even then I have my doubts) but I don’t think he was a better leader.

If anyone’s interested:

https://usso.uk/old-dog-old-tricks-americas-exhaustion-with-donald-trumps-divisive-rhetoric/

Not my finest work in any way shape or form, but it’s really nice to see something published somewhere.

Corazon de Leon wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:https://www.newsweek.com/wedding-became-funeral-us-still-silent-one-year-deadly-yemen-drone-strike-291403

It was just a gotcha from me really, but Obama wasn't really that good a Pres. Saying Trump is worse is like saying...I dunno. That poo tastes worse than really bad apple pie.

The trouble is all American Presidents are shitty.

Name a better President in the last 50 or so years than Obama? Trump? Bush (either)? Clinton? Reagan? Ford? Nixon?

The only one I would say was better without hesitation is Jimmy Carter.

America has appalling leaders. Which makes Obama a good one, even though he's a monster.

Carter wasn’t a better president than Obama, he was useless, ineffectual on both a domestic and foreign policy level. IMO of course. He might’ve been a better person(even then I have my doubts) but I don’t think he was a better leader.

I was thinking more in terms of being a good person. If we are just talking about getting done what they wanted done, the Trump would win as he's loving all this attention.

Corazon de Leon wrote:If anyone’s interested:

https://usso.uk/old-dog-old-tricks-americas-exhaustion-with-donald-trumps-divisive-rhetoric/

Not my finest work in any way shape or form, but it’s really nice to see something published somewhere.

Nice work Cora!

What do you think the chances are of a contingent election? And what do you think would happen if there were to be a 'tie'? By my maths, if Biden takes Michigan and Pennsylvania but all other states vote as they did in 2016 (not outside the realms of possibility), there will be no majority winner and both candidates will have the same number of electoral college votes. (So one faithless elector - someone in Vermont casting for Bernie? - could decide the election!)

I've had a quick read and it seems that the rules in this event are that the House elects the president and the Senate the VP. But at the last tie (a long long time ago) the outgoing congress elected the president. This has since been changed so the incoming congress would do so, but as this change has never been implemented, and the supreme court is now packed in Trump's favour, there's every chance for shenanigans...