Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:47 am
by Jenuall
I don't think anyone here is hanging him out to dry or suggesting it is in any way as bad as .1% of what Trump does on a daily basis. But the fact is the Democrats need to have a credible and reliable candidate to combat the Republicans and so far all we are seeing is the same bunch of old, white men (and an old white woman!) that are going to be easy prey for the republican media war machine - even before making gaffes like this.
Surely the democrats have more to offer than this?
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:08 am
by OrangeRKN
Yes I agree better candidates should be found. The problem I think is with the practical effect things like this have on campaigns and the overall narrative that the floating voters are subjected too. Democratic politicians are made easier prey for republican media when democrat support is criticising them for the same things, and the more important point (of equality and access to education in this case) is forgotten.
D: "Trump is a racist!"
R: "No he's not, that's just liberal propaganda!"
R: "Biden is a racist!"
D: "We agree!"
Trump is undoubtedly worse, but the differing approaches will make them appear much closer together. Similar things happen over here, like the Brexit vote being between the black-and-white "the EU is terrible and the UK will be better off alone in every way" and the more accurate, but ultimately less effective "the EU has problems but on balance we are better off within it". Every admission of EU flaws was giving ground to vote leave, and fueling the discussion they wanted to have. Here, criticism of Biden from the democratic side is feeding into republican attempts to discredit any democratic candidate. That's how I see it when I read the replies to that tweet.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:15 am
by Preezy
The American Left need to get realistic, they aren't going to find that candidate who can pass their purity tests whilst also being a household name that people will go out to vote for. Your average joe sixpack doesn't know or care who Kamala Harris is, but he's heard of Joe Biden and that just has to be good enough. They just need to beat Trump, everything else is secondary.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:20 am
by Moggy
Joe Biden is so old he was conceived just after Pearl Harbour.
If that’s the best hope for the future if America then they might as well just end the country now.
His casual racism is also a big problem, “hey Trump’s really really racist, what if we got somebody who’s a bit less racist?”.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 am
by Peter Crisp
It does seem like these are the final years of a political era in the US and that younger people on both sides will emerge and hopefully be a bit more open to compromise and sanity but maybe that's just me being optimistic for once.
I think it will need for the TV news to change and be less partisan and using opinion hosts less though as while people like Hannity and Fox and Friends exist and popular the propaganda will continue and hit jobs like we've seen recently against their newest enemies in the so called Squad will also sadly continue.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:52 am
by That
Maybe it's because Trump is president (see above) but this seems so very uncontroversial to me. His overall point is wanting to promote equality. His implied equivalence of poor to non-white is an awkward stereotype, but in the US one with statistical reality. If his agenda is to address that, that's a good thing. A proportional response is surely to correct his language while still agreeing with the overall point, not to hang him out to dry - especially when the president and leader of the opposition is posing for photo ops with a baby he orphaned.
I mean, I don't have that much skin in the game: I'm (clearly) not American and I don't follow it all
that closely. My probably-hot take is, look, they're still at the stage of nominating a candidate for the Democrats, and Biden strikes me a weak candidate with a worrying history of racism and uncomfortable behaviour around women, who only appears to have learned superficially from those mistakes and is still ridiculously gaffe-prone in a way that, to me, implies a mask is slipping rather than it being the random noise of genuine misspeaking.
Not all candidates have to be perfect. I don't think anyone should get #cancelled over one gaffe or even a history of gaffes if they would otherwise be a good progressive candidate---we shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good---so I could extend critical support if, say, his policies were really good. But he is one of the least progressive, most "establishment" candidates in the running. Trump galvanises his supporters, no-one is going to be galvanised by Biden.
I think are lots of better candidates in the race. Sanders and Warren are easily much better. I can see an argument for critical support for Gabbard even if she is an imperialist. Even some of the problematic meme candidates (#YANGGANG #MARIANNEMINDSET) would be better than than this wholly-pro-establishment kinda-racist kinda-pervy ancient white guy.
While I'm spewing hot vomit all over this thread, Harris is bad. Private prisons and wrongful incarceration is one of the biggest problems in America today and she was an unapologetic part of that system. She is the least likely candidate to do anything meaningful about ICE imo, she has a track record of kicking legal system reform into the long grass and that DONE Act stuff is milquetoast at best.
OrangeRKN wrote:Yes I agree better candidates should be found. The problem I think is with the practical effect things like this have on campaigns and the overall narrative that the floating voters are subjected too. Democratic politicians are made easier prey for republican media when democrat support is criticising them for the same things, and the more important point (of equality and access to education in this case) is forgotten. [...]
I can see this argument once we are properly in the head-to-head part of the election cycle, but surely now Democrats need to be critical of every candidate so that they actually select the best one?