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Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:32 am
by Cuttooth
Hillary the Hawk, Donald the Dove.
(Although she may well have done similar at some point who knows)
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:36 am
by captain red dog
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:captain red dog wrote:I'll shed no tears for Soleimani, but the US attack on him seems utterly reckless and I have no idea how that can be considered legal in international law.
Its either going to lead to war, or further action from Iran that will lead to more loss of life and more disruption to the region (disruption sounds like a crass understatement). Iran aren't going to back down from this, it would have been like them assassinating Mike Pence or something (as much as many people would rejoice that too, it also wouldn't be allowed to just slide by from the US point of view).
Fraught times ahead.
It's almost like there is an election this year.....
And the timing will nicely over shadow the impeachment trial. Absolutely ridiculous too as there was no way he would lose the impeachment trial. This is pure cloak and daggers stuff and it will probably have quite a high cost in terms of American deaths.
EDIT: Actually cloak and daggers isn't the right phrase given how blatent this is.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:48 am
by Dual
New decade new war.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:56 am
by Moggy
captain red dog wrote:Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:captain red dog wrote:I'll shed no tears for Soleimani, but the US attack on him seems utterly reckless and I have no idea how that can be considered legal in international law.
Its either going to lead to war, or further action from Iran that will lead to more loss of life and more disruption to the region (disruption sounds like a crass understatement). Iran aren't going to back down from this, it would have been like them assassinating Mike Pence or something (as much as many people would rejoice that too, it also wouldn't be allowed to just slide by from the US point of view).
Fraught times ahead.
It's almost like there is an election this year.....
And the timing will nicely over shadow the impeachment trial. Absolutely ridiculous too as there was no way he would lose the impeachment trial. This is pure cloak and daggers stuff and it will probably have quite a high cost in terms of American deaths.
EDIT: Actually cloak and daggers isn't the right phrase given how blatent this is.
The one thing that surprised me with Trump was that he didn’t get involved in any major conflict. I was convinced that he’d be attacking other countries but he has been pretty restrained (from an American hawk viewpoint!) until now.
I agree that this is a very blatant attempt at deflecting attention away from impeachment and cementing his vote in November. It’s also very rare for America to vote out a President during a war, something he may well have to rely on.
I just hope I am now too old to be drafted.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:10 am
by Cheeky Devlin
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:I just hope I am now too old to be drafted.
Can't be drafted if you've been reduced to a pile of atomic ash.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:35 am
by Moggy
Cheeky Devlin wrote:Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:I just hope I am now too old to be drafted.
Can't be drafted if you've been reduced to a pile of atomic ash.
It's probably the only option left when it comes to stopping Brexit.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:49 am
by Knoyleo
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:Cheeky Devlin wrote:Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:I just hope I am now too old to be drafted.
Can't be drafted if you've been reduced to a pile of atomic ash.
It's probably the only option left when it comes to stopping Brexit.
The #FBPE brigade really will stop at nothing.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:50 am
by Zilnad
Oh wow, I've just been reading the news and well... there are no words. Trump tweeting a picture of the American flag following the attack...
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm
by Alvin Flummux
Cuđđoolph wrote:Hillary the Hawk, Donald the Dove.
(Although she may well have done similar at some point who knows)
Clinton was smart enough to know not to murder foreign generals and provoke war. She probably would've had the CIA covertly try to stop whatever the man was planning.
But then again, with Clinton in charge, the Iran Nuclear Agreement wouldn't have fallen through, and this general probably wouldn't have been on this mission to begin with.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:47 pm
by sawyerpip
Am I missing something with Trump's "Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation" tweet, or is he just talking absolute nonsense as usual?
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:06 pm
by Moggy
sawyerpip wrote:Am I missing something with Trump's "Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation" tweet, or is he just talking absolute nonsense as usual?
I have no idea what he is talking about.
I guess if we ignore the entire history of Persia and just focus on the country since it was renamed then they haven’t “won” a war. But they haven’t really been involved in any other than the Iran/Iraq war in the 80s. And seeing as Iraq invaded them, I wouldn’t say they lost that one.
Losing a negotiation? I’ve no idea if they have lost any negotiations. I would imagine that they have but can’t be arsed to check.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:08 pm
by Knoyleo
sawyerpip wrote:Am I missing something with Trump's "Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation" tweet, or is he just talking absolute nonsense as usual?
It's a dig at Obama's Iran nuclear deal where they lifted sanctions on Iran.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:42 pm
by OrangeRKN
He genuinely can't understand that negotiations aren't inherently adversarial and it's easily possible for two sides to both come out benefiting from a deal.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:52 pm
by Peter Crisp
OrangeXMS wrote:He genuinely can't understand that negotiations aren't inherently adversarial and it's easily possible for two sides to both come out benefiting from a deal.
Pretty much.
I think it's a very US right wing perspective that any deal done must see one side screwing the other and anyone who doesn't have that approach is pretty much a straight up Communist. It's why they only talk about trade deals in terms of wins for the USA rather than deals where both sides gain for the benefit of all.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:07 pm
by KK
The U.K. wasn’t forewarned of these strikes, so presumably no one else was either (insert Russia joke here):
Boris Johnson was not warned about the US airstrike in Iraq that killed a top Iranian general, the BBC understands.
The UK has 400 troops based in the Middle East and works alongside US forces in the region.
But President Donald Trump did not tell the UK PM about the attack he ordered that killed Qasem Soleimani on Friday.
Tory MP Tom Tugendhat said there was a "pattern" from the current White House not to share details with its allies, which was a "matter of concern".
The former chairman of the Commons Foreign Affairs Committee added: "I have long believed the purpose of having allies is so we can surprise our enemies, not each other."
Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab did speak to US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Friday, although the time of the call is not known.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50981719
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:25 pm
by Peter Crisp
I think the idea of informing allies is the last thing on Trumps mind when he does anything.
He doesn't take advice from anyone so why bother and if they do have misgivings they'll be completely ignored anyway as everyone else is just a bunch of pussies and the US should be able to do whatever it wants whenever it wants.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:32 pm
by KK
I bet the first many officials and diplomats in the US heard about it was on Fox News (apparently another Trump directive when it comes to what news network should be playing on associated televisions, such as in the military).
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:53 pm
by captain red dog
Amazing to see republicans who backed Trump on "bring our troops home" suddenly reverting to "support our troops, support 'murica".
They don't even have troops on the ground yet but are using the narrative that they are already at war.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:30 pm
by Squinty
Awaiting our glorious leader's statement on this. Oh wait. He's on holiday.
Re: US Politics 2
Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:36 pm
by Rex Kramer
Squinty wrote:Awaiting our glorious leader's statement on this. Oh wait. He's on holiday.
By the looks of it, he found out about after we did.