US Politics 2

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Igor
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Igor » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:36 am

In fact, the only way I see this going any other direction is if the US is able to ride this out until November without any major harm (unlikely) and Sanders gets elected. Any other course at this point will end in disaster. Biden might be a Democrat but he certainly isn't up to the task of turning this around (I don't think he can remember his own name, half the time). If he wins, then at least he'll probably appoint people with some competence to key positions but I don't think the Democratic Party as a whole has the stones to do what needs to be done.

It's all quite terrifying, really.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Moggy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:54 am



I wish America would wake up and kick these strawberry floating psychopaths out of office.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Peter Crisp » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:49 pm

There's a large section of society who have been conditioned to think that companies and the rich are all that matters.
They'll happily slash funding for unimportant things like schools, infrastructure, hospitals and all benefits for low paid or unemployed people if it means companies can keep getting record profits and paying CEO's vast fortunes.
Anyone who tries to argue against this is automatically seen as a communist and socialist and the debate ends there.

These people won't change that view until the US is in utter shambles and even then they'll claim all the problems are caused by states who're more liberal then where they live. This may seem overblown but I fear this may end in some states seceding and the break-up of the US with the new Republican nations being utter shitholes.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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Igor
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Igor » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:17 pm

Peter Crisp wrote:There's a large section of society who have been conditioned to think that companies and the rich are all that matters.
They'll happily slash funding for unimportant things like schools, infrastructure, hospitals and all benefits for low paid or unemployed people if it means companies can keep getting record profits and paying CEO's vast fortunes.
Anyone who tries to argue against this is automatically seen as a communist and socialist and the debate ends there.

These people won't change that view until the US is in utter shambles and even then they'll claim all the problems are caused by states who're more liberal then where they live. This may seem overblown but I fear this may end in some states seceding and the break-up of the US with the new Republican nations being utter shitholes.


I can definitely see this happen, or at least the threat of this happening. Maybe things get bad and someone swoops in to save the day; internally or externally. The American mindset is built on competition and capitalism, I don't think they're capable of seeing it any other way.

Sanders wants every working-aged American that's out of work due to coronavirus to be paid $2,000 per month until the crisis over. This is a policy that so many other countries have implemented or are about to implement, and it's absolutely vital to ensure the economy doesn't drop like a stone. This is in contrast with the GOP plan; one-time cheque for $1,000. If you're one of the 18% of people earning less than $20,000 a year and you're just about scraping by with what you have, a one-time cheque is worse than useless. They need to keep people spending on consumer goods, and they need to keep people from defaulting on loans. If you're barely making ends meet because your at-will employer has told you to strawberry float off, and you receive a single $1,000 cheque, you don't run out and make sure your mortgage is paid on time, or the loan for the car sat on your driveway because everywhere you might want to drive it to is closed, or your student loan debt that's sitting at around $27,000 per person, on average. You sit on that money because you have no idea where the next lot will come from. You make that $1,000 last as long as possible because you need it to. Billions of dollars are going to sit in bank accounts or as cash in people's homes, doing absolutely nothing. People spend when they feel that they have a steady stream of income, the US absolutely needs to implement a plan like Bernie's to prevent the biggest depression in history.

Yet take a look at any American centric discussion thread on this subject. "I would really benefit from this but $2,000 is more than I earn each month anyway so it doesn't feel right that other people will just be given more money than I take home each month". "But how will we pay for it, we're already $23,000,000,000,000 in debt!". "Give people $2,000 a month and they'll just waste it and then be asking for more.".

The US can't reduce its military spending. They just can't - well, not without the simultaneous introduction of the biggest jobs program and welfare program ever. The US military is one of the biggest socialist organisations in the world. Millions of jobs are dependant on the huge influx of cash the US spends on its military each year. It's become so inflated and gorged that any threat to the amount of money that gets spent will be fought by every level of government, from senators and congressman at a federal level who receive funding from the MIC, to state congressman and governors whose states are home to military bases and suppliers.

There'll be a distraction in the near future, Republicans will need something to detract attention from the increasingly worsening situation and they know from experience that the best way to do that is to lean on one of the few hot-button social issues kept alive so that it can be wheeled out whenever necessary. I doubt the majority of Republican politicians actually give a strawberry float whether Jennifer, a 17-year-old high school student from Ohio gets an abortion unless there is a way for them to profit from it. But their base does. If RBG dies in the near future, watch the GOP scramble to replace her and then there'll be a real push to repeal Roe v. Wade.

The Netflix show, Dirty Money, has a great episode on Jared Kushner in their new series. He owns a large number of residential rental properties and if it's not obvious, he's a strawberry floating scum landlord. In the episode, there's an interview with a working poor couple that live in a Kushner property and they're getting crushed under the weight of excess fees they're being forced to pay. Late on your rent once and that's $100 added on. When you next pay your rent, the fine is paid first and given the average tenant in these properties is barely above the poverty level (if they are at all), they're unlikely to have enough to cover both the fine and their rent. So another fine is added on. Give it six months, and these people are paying half in fines, half in rent. Soon you're looking at bills for $1,500 a month when your rent is only $800. This couple? Trump voters. 'Cos he 'gets stuff done'.

What's even more mental is that all this is happening in a country that has 1.2 civilian (i.e. small arms) firearms per person, and they're not afraid to use them. With a huge spike in unemployment among the lower-level income bands, desperation is sure to follow. El Salvador currently has the highest murder rate per capita but I fear the US will surpass El Salvador and then some. Democrats will start to shout louder about gun control as things deteriorate but even the very liberal democrat voters will begin to feel safer with a Glock.

Health insurance companies will start expanding the scope of ailments and issues they no longer cover, struggling under the strain of the volume of claims they'll be receiving by this point. Instead of implementing a robust single-payer system, the federal government will bail out the health insurance industry to prevent a complete collapse but as we're seeing with Trump's '$500billion dollar corporate aid package that I'll oversee myself', it'll simply be a pot from which his cronies can take what they want.

I certainly hope that the content of my last few posts in here doesn't play out in reality, but if it does, it'll be the most incredible thing to watch. When Rome fell, I can't imagine (but could be completely wrong!) that the average person in Lusitania, or northern Britannia, knew much of a difference. Your average Chinese peasant or Mayan basket weaver had no way of knowing or seeing the results, not least because it took the best part of a few hundred years. We may well get to see this play out in just a few decades.

(the last few posts have been quite fun to write, almost an alternative history, creative writing exercise. If anyone has any similar thoughts on where the US may potentially go from here or disagrees with anything I've written, it'd be great to read).

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Moggy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:30 pm



:lol:

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massimo
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by massimo » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:27 pm

Moggy wrote:

:lol:

For strawberry floats sake please corona virus can you please just kill this banana split ASAP and I’ll gladly deal with a 12 month lockdown.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Peter Crisp » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:17 pm

Just once I'd like him to act like a normal human and look like he actually gives a gooseberry fool about the people of the US.
Say what you like about Boris Johnson and his policies but at least he can do a press conference and look like he might actually care about someone other than himself.
Trump has all the empathy of a serial killer.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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Lex-Man
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Lex-Man » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:41 pm

massimo wrote:
Moggy wrote:

:lol:

For strawberry floats sake please corona virus can you please just kill this banana split ASAP and I’ll gladly deal with a 12 month lockdown.


It should be satire but it's real.

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Corazon de Leon » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:45 pm

Igor wrote:
Peter Crisp wrote:There's a large section of society who have been conditioned to think that companies and the rich are all that matters.
They'll happily slash funding for unimportant things like schools, infrastructure, hospitals and all benefits for low paid or unemployed people if it means companies can keep getting record profits and paying CEO's vast fortunes.
Anyone who tries to argue against this is automatically seen as a communist and socialist and the debate ends there.

These people won't change that view until the US is in utter shambles and even then they'll claim all the problems are caused by states who're more liberal then where they live. This may seem overblown but I fear this may end in some states seceding and the break-up of the US with the new Republican nations being utter shitholes.


I can definitely see this happen, or at least the threat of this happening. Maybe things get bad and someone swoops in to save the day; internally or externally. The American mindset is built on competition and capitalism, I don't think they're capable of seeing it any other way.

Sanders wants every working-aged American that's out of work due to coronavirus to be paid $2,000 per month until the crisis over. This is a policy that so many other countries have implemented or are about to implement, and it's absolutely vital to ensure the economy doesn't drop like a stone. This is in contrast with the GOP plan; one-time cheque for $1,000. If you're one of the 18% of people earning less than $20,000 a year and you're just about scraping by with what you have, a one-time cheque is worse than useless. They need to keep people spending on consumer goods, and they need to keep people from defaulting on loans. If you're barely making ends meet because your at-will employer has told you to strawberry float off, and you receive a single $1,000 cheque, you don't run out and make sure your mortgage is paid on time, or the loan for the car sat on your driveway because everywhere you might want to drive it to is closed, or your student loan debt that's sitting at around $27,000 per person, on average. You sit on that money because you have no idea where the next lot will come from. You make that $1,000 last as long as possible because you need it to. Billions of dollars are going to sit in bank accounts or as cash in people's homes, doing absolutely nothing. People spend when they feel that they have a steady stream of income, the US absolutely needs to implement a plan like Bernie's to prevent the biggest depression in history.

Yet take a look at any American centric discussion thread on this subject. "I would really benefit from this but $2,000 is more than I earn each month anyway so it doesn't feel right that other people will just be given more money than I take home each month". "But how will we pay for it, we're already $23,000,000,000,000 in debt!". "Give people $2,000 a month and they'll just waste it and then be asking for more.".

The US can't reduce its military spending. They just can't - well, not without the simultaneous introduction of the biggest jobs program and welfare program ever. The US military is one of the biggest socialist organisations in the world. Millions of jobs are dependant on the huge influx of cash the US spends on its military each year. It's become so inflated and gorged that any threat to the amount of money that gets spent will be fought by every level of government, from senators and congressman at a federal level who receive funding from the MIC, to state congressman and governors whose states are home to military bases and suppliers.

There'll be a distraction in the near future, Republicans will need something to detract attention from the increasingly worsening situation and they know from experience that the best way to do that is to lean on one of the few hot-button social issues kept alive so that it can be wheeled out whenever necessary. I doubt the majority of Republican politicians actually give a strawberry float whether Jennifer, a 17-year-old high school student from Ohio gets an abortion unless there is a way for them to profit from it. But their base does. If RBG dies in the near future, watch the GOP scramble to replace her and then there'll be a real push to repeal Roe v. Wade.

The Netflix show, Dirty Money, has a great episode on Jared Kushner in their new series. He owns a large number of residential rental properties and if it's not obvious, he's a strawberry floating scum landlord. In the episode, there's an interview with a working poor couple that live in a Kushner property and they're getting crushed under the weight of excess fees they're being forced to pay. Late on your rent once and that's $100 added on. When you next pay your rent, the fine is paid first and given the average tenant in these properties is barely above the poverty level (if they are at all), they're unlikely to have enough to cover both the fine and their rent. So another fine is added on. Give it six months, and these people are paying half in fines, half in rent. Soon you're looking at bills for $1,500 a month when your rent is only $800. This couple? Trump voters. 'Cos he 'gets stuff done'.

What's even more mental is that all this is happening in a country that has 1.2 civilian (i.e. small arms) firearms per person, and they're not afraid to use them. With a huge spike in unemployment among the lower-level income bands, desperation is sure to follow. El Salvador currently has the highest murder rate per capita but I fear the US will surpass El Salvador and then some. Democrats will start to shout louder about gun control as things deteriorate but even the very liberal democrat voters will begin to feel safer with a Glock.

Health insurance companies will start expanding the scope of ailments and issues they no longer cover, struggling under the strain of the volume of claims they'll be receiving by this point. Instead of implementing a robust single-payer system, the federal government will bail out the health insurance industry to prevent a complete collapse but as we're seeing with Trump's '$500billion dollar corporate aid package that I'll oversee myself', it'll simply be a pot from which his cronies can take what they want.

I certainly hope that the content of my last few posts in here doesn't play out in reality, but if it does, it'll be the most incredible thing to watch. When Rome fell, I can't imagine (but could be completely wrong!) that the average person in Lusitania, or northern Britannia, knew much of a difference. Your average Chinese peasant or Mayan basket weaver had no way of knowing or seeing the results, not least because it took the best part of a few hundred years. We may well get to see this play out in just a few decades.

(the last few posts have been quite fun to write, almost an alternative history, creative writing exercise. If anyone has any similar thoughts on where the US may potentially go from here or disagrees with anything I've written, it'd be great to read).


Secession is not a credible threat now, or even really in the near future for any state. The Civil War essentially put paid to the idea of a State seceding - it is theoretically legal for one to leave the union but practically it isn't possible. They all know that on some level they are dependent on the Federal government for survival and growth.

However, it is certainly true that the divisions between North and South, or Democrat and Republican, haven't been as clearly visible for quite a long time. American politics has begun a very slow process of grinding to a complete halt as partisanship is clouding common sense in a way that it didn't even during the time of Reagan, Bush and Clinton. I could waffle on about the rise of partisan politics in the States in the last fifty years but I'm not sure anyone wants that. :slol:

With all of that said, I genuinely don't think that the break up of the United States is going to happen. America has gone through periods of upheaval, protest and division and come through it largely unscathed - look at 1968 for example. Two high profile assassinations, a largely unsanctioned proxy war abroad, draft riots, a president forced to resign by March and a riot at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Or Watergate, which was an international embarrassment. The USA has competition now, but it's too big and too powerful to be kept down for long and I don't think we're quite at the stage of a 231 year old system breaking down quite yet.

Don't mistake my skepticism for lack of urgency though. The lasting effect of Coronavirus could very well be the deepening of these scars, and an ineffectual Federal government would have a much harder job controlling the diverging interests of different states in the next few decades.

It's interesting to think about! What would happen in the case of a complete breakdown of communication over there?

I didn't actually know that about Kushner. He's a horrible, awful piece of work.

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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Meep » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:15 pm

It seems like a real "mask off" moment. You get to see what the people in charge actually care about when they are forced between protecting the people and protecting their own wealth. They have to actually come out and say they would rather people died than suffer a depreciation in their portfolios (not exactly in those words, but more or less).

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Peter Crisp » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:03 am

It's also amazing that the idea that maybe it's time to perhaps take some of the spare money from the multi billionaires to help the millions of people in need is nowhere to be seen. They can be left with enough money for them and the next 10 generations of their family to never work a single day ever and live in luxury and still have billions to help tackle this crisis but nope, that's beyond contemplation.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Cuttooth » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:16 am

We can at least put to bed the annoying question of whether the Republican party are a force for evil or simply a group of people others disagree with. Letting 2% of Americans (maybe even higher) die to save the stock market.

Truly gobsmacking.

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:21 am

Cuttooth wrote:We can at least put to bed the annoying question of whether the Republican party are a force for evil or simply a group of people others disagree with. Letting 2% of Americans (maybe even higher) die to save the stock market.

Truly gobsmacking.


Indeed. What is 2% of 300 million - 7 million people? That's genocide.

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Photek
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Photek » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:31 am

Peter Crisp wrote:Just once I'd like him to act like a normal human and look like he actually gives a gooseberry fool about the people of the US.
Say what you like about Boris Johnson and his policies but at least he can do a press conference and look like he might actually care about someone other than himself.
Trump has all the empathy of a serial killer.

This is Absolute bollocks tbh.

Last edited by Photek on Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hexx
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Hexx » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:34 am

No you guys you’re not getting it

During an economic downturn so many would suffer and die - far beyond those in an epidemic (evidence needed)

The republicans are trying to save people. It’s the evil democrats that want people to die

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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Photek » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:38 am

The Minnesota Governor is ordering a lockdown to remain, so I'm not sure Trump has the power to universally 'open things back up'. Republican Governor's of states will no doubt follow their fuhrer though.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Moggy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:48 am

Cuttooth wrote:We can at least put to bed the annoying question of whether the Republican party are a force for evil or simply a group of people others disagree with. Letting 2% of Americans (maybe even higher) die to save the stock market.

Truly gobsmacking.



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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Lex-Man » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:44 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... stribution

It looks like Karl Prof had gotten to Britney. Also apperently she doesn't have any control over her money.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Moggy » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:12 pm

Lex-Man wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/music/2020/mar/25/comrade-britney-spears-star-calls-for-strike-and-wealth-redistribution

It looks like Karl Prof had gotten to Britney. Also apperently she doesn't have any control over her money.


2020: Britain leaves the EU, Trump remains as President, a global pandemic shuts British pubs and Britney Spears comes out as a communist.

You’d have gotten great odds on that 5 years ago.

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PostRe: US Politics 2
by Hexx » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:17 pm



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