US Politics 2

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 2:14 pm

The Democrats, outside of AOC, Katie Hill, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and a handful of others, look sluggish and unprepared to fight for democracy.

The Democrats need to radicalise and bring the fight to the Republicans.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Tafdolphin** » Sat May 18, 2019 2:15 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:The Democrats, outside of AOC, Katie Hill, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren and a handful of others, look sluggish and unprepared to fight for democracy.

BIG yes.

The Democrats need to radicalise

WORLD ENDING no.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 2:17 pm

Why would it end the world for the Democrats to attack the Republicans with their own tactics, to not settle for middle ground Bidens and Pelosi types?

Obama proved that these people are not interested in playing by the old rules. They're fighting hard and dirty, breaking the law and not being punished. Why shouldn't the Democrats just strawberry float them up the same way?

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Tafdolphin** » Sat May 18, 2019 2:27 pm

Nah, that's just me giving that notion a 'no' reaction that, had it a physical representation, would end the world.

I just think it's a real bad idea.

As for why... Escalation, for one. The reductive, copycat nature for two. Experience for three (Republican ideology lends itself far better to hyperbolic rhetoric and the Dems would be taking on the masters of it in their own back yard).

The Dems need to step the strawberry float up, but not by sinking down into the swamp.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 3:06 pm

The swamp isn't going away until the Democrats have both chambers and can end Citizens United, and that isn't happening this side of 2030.

I just want to end the threat posed by Trump and McConnell. I don't care how. I fear all this will end in civil war, but if that's how it goes, I'll fight.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Return_of_the_STAR** » Sat May 18, 2019 3:23 pm

Can anyone explain this while US and Iran thing that appears to have ramped up out of no where? Is Trump just after a ratings boost?

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 3:28 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Can anyone explain this while US and Iran thing that appears to have ramped up out of no where? Is Trump just after a ratings boost?

War presidents get re-elected, plus it'd serve as a fantastic distraction from, you know, the fall of democracy.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Tafdolphin** » Sat May 18, 2019 3:34 pm

Alvin Flummux wrote:The swamp isn't going away until the Democrats have both chambers and can end Citizens United, and that isn't happening this side of 2030.

I just want to end the threat posed by Trump and McConnell. I don't care how. I fear all this will end in civil war, but if that's how it goes, I'll fight.

I'm all for punching dem Nazis, but the Dems aren't going to win by using Republican's tactics against them.

The sooner the old guard like Biden and Pelosi strawberry float off the better.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 3:57 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:The swamp isn't going away until the Democrats have both chambers and can end Citizens United, and that isn't happening this side of 2030.

I just want to end the threat posed by Trump and McConnell. I don't care how. I fear all this will end in civil war, but if that's how it goes, I'll fight.

I'm all for punching dem Nazis, but the Dems aren't going to win by using Republican's tactics against them.

The sooner the old guard like Biden and Pelosi strawberry float off the better.

Pelosi isn't a bad counter to Trump on a good day, but I'm glad she term limited herself. Sadly, Trump wants a two year extension on his term, because the first two years were "stolen." :dread:

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Tafdolphin** » Sat May 18, 2019 4:00 pm

For real? I said at the start of his term there was no way he'd give up the presidency willingly but I thought that would be in the case of a second term.

strawberry float me.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 4:02 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:For real? I said at the start of his term there was no way he'd give up the presidency willingly but I thought that would be in the case of a second term.

strawberry float me.

He got the idea from his best bud, Jerry Falwell Jr.

twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1124841332747460608

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/ ... tions.html

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Lex-Man** » Sat May 18, 2019 6:01 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Can anyone explain this while US and Iran thing that appears to have ramped up out of no where? Is Trump just after a ratings boost?

The US has moved more troops into the area.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Peter Crisp** » Sat May 18, 2019 6:57 pm

The Dems need to stop trying to woo hardcore Trump fans as they're beyond all reason and completely lost.
They will simply shout "Socialism" at any and all policies that aren't ultra hard right and no amount of reasoned debate will sway them.

If they still vote for Trump after the last 2 years of this shitshow then nothing he does will convince them he isn't some sort of messiah.

I do really wish Americans would actually read about what socialism actually is before they bang on about it though.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Sat May 18, 2019 6:59 pm

twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1129770921525481472

What?

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Peter Crisp** » Sat May 18, 2019 7:02 pm

It's certainly a bold strategy to try and reinvent the word no to mean yes.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **That** » Sat May 18, 2019 7:24 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:The Democrats need to radicalise

WORLD ENDING no. [...] I just think it's a real bad idea. [Because of] escalation, for one. The reductive, copycat nature for two. Experience for three (Republican ideology lends itself far better to hyperbolic rhetoric and the Dems would be taking on the masters of it in their own back yard).

The Dems need to step the strawberry float up, but not by sinking down into the swamp.

Could you explain what you mean by this? A radical leftist stance would be very different in tone, rhetoric, and aims to an alt-right one; I don't think it would lower the Democrats at all to refuse to compromise with the far-right. I feel like there has been too much ground given already -- when do you say "no further" and is that not a radical (but just) stance today?

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Tafdolphin** » Sat May 18, 2019 7:36 pm

Karl_ wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Alvin Flummux wrote:The Democrats need to radicalise

WORLD ENDING no. [...] I just think it's a real bad idea. [Because of] escalation, for one. The reductive, copycat nature for two. Experience for three (Republican ideology lends itself far better to hyperbolic rhetoric and the Dems would be taking on the masters of it in their own back yard).

The Dems need to step the strawberry float up, but not by sinking down into the swamp.

Could you explain what you mean by this? A radical leftist stance would be very different in tone, rhetoric, and aims to an alt-right one; I don't think it would lower the Democrats at all to refuse to compromise with the far-right. I feel like there has been too much ground given already -- when do you say "no further" and is that not a radical (but just) stance today?

So, funny thing; your post sums up exactly what I'm trying to say.

Alvin was arguing that the Dem's best strategy is to literally ape the Republican campaigns that play off of fear and division. Here's the post just for reference

Alvin Flummux wrote:This is how Republicans sell their policies and candidates so effectively to voters:

twitter.com/RogueShoeButler/status/1129551137538023424

twitter.com/RogueShoeButler/status/1129553999139659776

The solution seems simple to me: co-opt the strategy, and turn it to the Democrats' advantage.

Where Republicans show Biden as a creepy hair sniffer, depict him in front of the flag wielding a rifle and saluting.

Show military veteran candidates like Buttigieg posing on tanks, warplanes etc. Hell, show them leading a goddamn bayonet charge.

Depict the Trump family as anchor babies and the like, and the president as a lecherous caricature criminal, perving on upstanding citizens, or reaching into wombs and wallets. Depict him as the weak ass negotiator he is, folding before foreign adversaries, or standing on a crumpled American flag while the Russian flag flies behind him with a clearly Russian landmark as a "Made in Moscow" label is stamped on him.

Show Lindsey Graham the flip-flopping brown noser, DeVos the craven witch, or McConnell the corrupt evil mastermind fighting a Captain America-like hero character called, uh, Captain Healthcare?

Show piles of dead women and girls, killed by Republican healthcare and anti-abortionists policies. Introduce the term Christian Sharia Law and use caricatures of Trump hacking the Constitution to pieces.

Use simple, almost cartoon imagery and messages, of the kind Trump supporters respond to. Play on their prejudices. Get strawberry floating dirty.

They can still use messaging and whatnot that speaks to the Democratic base, but if they truly want to cut into Trump's base, if they ever want to retake the Senate, they need to change tack and advertise on the level that Republican voters respond to. Make them angry at and afraid of the Republicans, as they damn well should be.

The point I was trying to make was that the left does need to get more hard-line, but not by literally copying the right's reliance on fear tactics and fake news.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **That** » Sat May 18, 2019 9:13 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:...

Ahh! I understand now. Thanks. I know you're firm left in your own beliefs, so I was a bit confused (and it did cross my mind I had missed something!).

I kinda agree that easy-to-understand messaging with emotive impact can be effective marketing for any idea / position (that seems to be objectively true, if a bit sad). I think the left could learn from that, but what I'd say to Alvin is that where we should differ from the alt-right should be an adherence to (and reference to) actual facts, and speaking real truth to the people with real responsibility for the failings of our society.

Furthermore re: radicalisation, we should smash the fash. Radically.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **Tafdolphin** » Sat May 18, 2019 9:15 pm

Punch dem Nazis.

PostRe: US Politics 2 by **That** » Sat May 18, 2019 9:22 pm

milkshaking nazis is praxis

US Politics 2

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