US Politics 3

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Is this all essentially happening because of who Trump managed to get on the supreme court?

As I said, legacy of Trump.

Hexx wrote:

twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1540338505242525698

They're coming for it all.

The best outcome from this is it would make all those that didn't vote for Hillary in 2016 as "not progressive enough"/"just as bad" might rethink their choices now they can see consequences (By no means all on them though). But Biden's been distinctly underwhelming and I'm not hopefully for 2024

The vast majority of those people will have voted for Biden against Trump and have received a president and congress that will deliver little in the way for them or actively fight against a party of anti-democratic fascists.

You can’t just keep saying that elections have consequences if there has been no great positive consequence in generally voting for the Democrats aside from a brief respite from laws and institutions sliding further to the far right due to a system that solely benefits a minority of hard line conservatives. Although it would be fair to suggest that a lot of Democratic primaries have consequences, which is why it should be considered absolutely disgraceful that senior Democrats like Nancy Pelosi endorsed an anti-abortion Democrat in Henry Cuellar during his primary challenge that he won by only a few hundred votes.

EDIT

twitter.com/FarnoushAmiri/status/1540370901803433984

Useless twats.

twitter.com/demisatyr/status/1540352708523196416

It's just strawberry floating incredible to be brutally honest. Reps basically tried a poorly organised coup to overturn a legitimate democratic election. In normal world I'm completely against violence, or violent revolution. Speaking as a privileged western democratic citizen of course.

However, when it comes to removing the most basic democratic right of body autonomy, if Reps tried a coup over losing an election....

I'm just so glad I'm not a US citizen right now.

For us Brits, be prepared to face this battle ourselves. I rule nothing out anymore.

captain red dog wrote:It's just strawberry floating incredible to be brutally honest. Reps basically tried a poorly organised coup to overturn a legitimate democratic election. In normal world I'm completely against violence, or violent revolution. Speaking as a privileged western democratic citizen of course.

However, when it comes to removing the most basic democratic right of body autonomy, if Reps tried a coup over losing an election....

I'm just so glad I'm not a US citizen right now.

For us Brits, be prepared to face this battle ourselves. I rule nothing out anymore.

Our government are already planning on scrapping our existing human rights legislation wholesale this year.

Christian anti-abortion groups from America have already wormed their way into supporting various British groups that are either explicitly anti-abortion or who want to discriminate against the same groups of people they do.

Cuttooth wrote:Christian anti-abortion groups from America have already wormed their way into supporting various British groups that are either explicitly anti-abortion or who want to discriminate against the same groups of people they do.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not only do we have a much more secular society but even normally horrid outlets like the Mail cannot believe this has happened.

Plus the church in this country is on the whole quite nice.

Carlos wrote:

Cuttooth wrote:Christian anti-abortion groups from America have already wormed their way into supporting various British groups that are either explicitly anti-abortion or who want to discriminate against the same groups of people they do.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not only do we have a much more secular society but even normally horrid outlets like the Mail cannot believe this has happened.

Plus the church in this country is on the whole quite nice.

What do you mean by ‘this country?’ Because Protestant church goers in Northern Ireland are anti abortion, massively so.

Photek wrote:

Carlos wrote:

Cuttooth wrote:Christian anti-abortion groups from America have already wormed their way into supporting various British groups that are either explicitly anti-abortion or who want to discriminate against the same groups of people they do.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not only do we have a much more secular society but even normally horrid outlets like the Mail cannot believe this has happened.

Plus the church in this country is on the whole quite nice.

What do you mean by ‘this country?’ Because Protestant church goers in Northern Ireland are anti abortion, massively so.

Yes, but they will be your problem in a couple of years.

Photek wrote:

Carlos wrote:

Cuttooth wrote:Christian anti-abortion groups from America have already wormed their way into supporting various British groups that are either explicitly anti-abortion or who want to discriminate against the same groups of people they do.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not only do we have a much more secular society but even normally horrid outlets like the Mail cannot believe this has happened.

Plus the church in this country is on the whole quite nice.

What do you mean by ‘this country?’ Because Protestant church goers in Northern Ireland are anti abortion, massively so.

I guess I was thinking of mainly England.

Whilst the Old Testament makes it clear that ‘Thou shalt not murder’ (Its not ‘kill’. It’s a subtle difference lost in translation. Murder is cold-blooded killing whilst taking a life in self defence or in a war is not. And there is a LOT of that in the OT) Jesus also made it pretty clear that we should not ‘judge lest ye be judged’ or ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’.

Whilst the commandment would make it pretty clear abortion done by a Christian (or Jew) is murder, Jesus also says that we should not judge those outside the church because they live their lives to a different moral code. It is up to Christian’s to be a light unto the world and demonstrate God’s love (by caring for others, not demonising them) but it is not our job to force those beliefs on anyone at any level.

In other words there is nothing wrong with being morally opposed to abortion and indeed if you are a Christian physician then refusing to do one is perfectly fine. But the Supreme Court (or anyone else in a position of power) has absolutely no place forcing those views on people who do not believe in them.

Carlos wrote:

Cuttooth wrote:Christian anti-abortion groups from America have already wormed their way into supporting various British groups that are either explicitly anti-abortion or who want to discriminate against the same groups of people they do.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Not only do we have a much more secular society but even normally horrid outlets like the Mail cannot believe this has happened.

Plus the church in this country is on the whole quite nice.

The overwhelming majority of Americans support the protections granted to women by Roe v Wade. The violent far right of America are able to shape the laws and nature of the country because the lopsided systems in place allow a minority of Americans far greater voting power than the majority and centrist Democrats do not want to rock the boat when it comes to making those systems more just.

The same basic democratic problems in America exist in this country. The UK government is planning to remove our rights at this very moment, joining the ranks of a right wing Greek junta from the 70s and present day, Ukraine invading Russia in withdrawing from the European Commission of Human Rights! The response from the Attorney General to two hefty by-election defeats is to imply that tactical voting is somehow anti-democratic when it impacts the Tories!

Anti-abortion and conservative groups that are looking to push "traditional values" in this country aren't typically doing so as an openly religious exercise but it doesn't change who their international supporters are or how they have got involved in parallel "wedge issues" like transphobia. If we're only looking for identical circumstances before we can call out the similarities in the British and American far right then it's going to be way too late to do anything about it once we do recognise what's happening.

I don't imagine the UK will follow the US.

But then I never imagined we'd try shipping refugees to Rwanda either.

We think "that could never happen" because we know the majority of people disagree with it, but we have a system of minority rule so that is no guarantee.

OrangeRKN wrote:We think "that could never happen" because we know the majority of people disagree with it, but we have a system of minority rule so that is no guarantee.

It doesn't really have much to do with people disagreeing, like you say minority rule means that doesn't matter.

But we don't have the religious far right in the way America does. Our far right is dominated by selfishness, cruelty and bigotry, but not by religion.

That's not to say it'd never happen, but it isn't likely.

There seems a certain aptness that women's sexual health appears to be being determined by a bunch of banana splits.

twitter.com/SuzylaineOC/status/1540517178016821248

The strawberry floating state of these pathetic "vote in November" moderates.

OrangeRKN wrote:We think "that could never happen" because we know the majority of people disagree with it, but we have a system of minority rule so that is no guarantee.

There's no chance Boris bans abortion, for a start he's alleged to have paid for an abortion for one of the women he had an affair with but there's also no populist movement to do such a thing.

To the extent that an abortion debate even exists in the UK, it's exclusively a Northern Ireland matter and probably a settled manner with abortion laws now matching Britain rather than Britain matching NI laws on it.

Even in the wildest scenario of Jacob Rees-Moggy (Catholic view on abortion) being PM, it would either be a free vote or a massive rebellion against being whipped so wouldn't pass.

From a Johnson appointed peer.

twitter.com/danielmgmoylan/status/1540361915590918145

Nibble wrote:From a Johnson appointed peer.

twitter.com/danielmgmoylan/status/1540361915590918145

And this fuckhead.

twitter.com/sunflowersutra1/status/1540363255557799936

He's deleted that now. A coward as well as a misogynist.