captain red dog wrote:Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.
Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.
The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.
No we had TV coverage of the Commons. And yes it was the main chamber.
So you are clear that it is not the fault of the Capitol security. But you also think they should be on trial and you can't see how it happened without complicity?
You know people died in the Capitol? And that four Capitol security personnel committed suicide in the months after the attack?
Being on trial is a bit hyperbole from myself (although I would note that Bannon is facing charges), but there are definitely serious questions to be asked of security around the capitol that day.
Yes I'm aware of the deaths. Not sure what that changes, the security failure was as shocking as the insurrectionists were despicable. The entire thing was a massive stain on the US, and the reaction has been almost non existent.
The insurrectionists need to be suitably punished. Security needs to be severely reviewed and reformed. The previous administration needs to be hauled over the grill for what happened.
All the security procedures in the world is going to be useless when a mob of thousands of people storm a building.
The deaths don't change what happened, but they highlight that your "complicity" comment is wrong and is in poor taste. There was not really much security could do when faced with a huge mob that has stormed the building with the aim of killing people.
Didn't members of Congress give some of the rioters tours of the building shortly before the event. Also when there's been left wing protests they've had police out in force but for this lot they didn't call in support. There were definitely failures that could be fixed IMO.
captain red dog wrote:Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.
Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.
The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.
No we had TV coverage of the Commons. And yes it was the main chamber.
So you are clear that it is not the fault of the Capitol security. But you also think they should be on trial and you can't see how it happened without complicity?
You know people died in the Capitol? And that four Capitol security personnel committed suicide in the months after the attack?
Being on trial is a bit hyperbole from myself (although I would note that Bannon is facing charges), but there are definitely serious questions to be asked of security around the capitol that day.
Yes I'm aware of the deaths. Not sure what that changes, the security failure was as shocking as the insurrectionists were despicable. The entire thing was a massive stain on the US, and the reaction has been almost non existent.
The insurrectionists need to be suitably punished. Security needs to be severely reviewed and reformed. The previous administration needs to be hauled over the grill for what happened.
All the security procedures in the world is going to be useless when a mob of thousands of people storm a building.
The deaths don't change what happened, but they highlight that your "complicity" comment is wrong and is in poor taste. There was not really much security could do when faced with a huge mob that has stormed the building with the aim of killing people.
Didn't members of Congress give some of the rioters tours of the building shortly before the event. Also when there's been left wing protests they've had police out in force but for this lot they didn't call in support. There were definitely failures that could be fixed IMO.
All of which has nothing to do with the poor sods who had to face the mob.
captain red dog wrote:Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.
Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.
The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.
No we had TV coverage of the Commons. And yes it was the main chamber.
So you are clear that it is not the fault of the Capitol security. But you also think they should be on trial and you can't see how it happened without complicity?
You know people died in the Capitol? And that four Capitol security personnel committed suicide in the months after the attack?
Being on trial is a bit hyperbole from myself (although I would note that Bannon is facing charges), but there are definitely serious questions to be asked of security around the capitol that day.
Yes I'm aware of the deaths. Not sure what that changes, the security failure was as shocking as the insurrectionists were despicable. The entire thing was a massive stain on the US, and the reaction has been almost non existent.
The insurrectionists need to be suitably punished. Security needs to be severely reviewed and reformed. The previous administration needs to be hauled over the grill for what happened.
All the security procedures in the world is going to be useless when a mob of thousands of people storm a building.
The deaths don't change what happened, but they highlight that your "complicity" comment is wrong and is in poor taste. There was not really much security could do when faced with a huge mob that has stormed the building with the aim of killing people.
Didn't members of Congress give some of the rioters tours of the building shortly before the event. Also when there's been left wing protests they've had police out in force but for this lot they didn't call in support. There were definitely failures that could be fixed IMO.
Some members of the Republican were heavily involved in this. It's one of the reasons they're trying to suppress the report so much.
I really think people in America are underestimating how much of an attempt to over throw democracy this actually was. The Republicans are really succeeding in downplaying their actions, and they'll be even better at it next time they try it.
Problem lies with the charges levied against him for me. Quite how he's not going to prison for reckless endangerment of human life or at least their form of manslaughter is beggar's belief.
Unsurprising, he went looking for trouble but legally he had a compelling argument for self-defence. He shouldn't have been there with a firearm in the first place, they didn't even charge him with unlawful possession.
Stuart wrote:Unsurprising, he went looking for trouble but legally he had a compelling argument for self-defence. He shouldn't have been there with a firearm in the first place, they didn't even charge him with unlawful possession.
mens rea, actus reus unproven most likely.
But how you can travel from one state to another with a machine gun and the result is two people dying and then NOT face prison time is as good an indicator as it gets to prove a flawed justice system.
Knew it was coming but still deeply shocking. You'd have hoped that after George Floyd/David Chauvin things might have changed, but nope. What's more shocking his how blatently they stacked the system for the white nationalist murderer. They're not even hiding.
It's effectively changed the fundamental nature of self defence.
This should have been the dream situation of 2Aers. A (or several) ‘good guy’ with a gun trying to stop an active shooter.
What's we're seeing is the support for the argument to Rittenhouse’s paranoid/racist perceptions entitled him to instigate and enflame the situation, precipitate the use deadly force with an illegal assault weapon while claiming "self-defense" against any reaction. (The fact one of his victims was trying to disarm him has been used as evidence of self-defence by the defence lawyer as he felt threatened for instance)
It's been decided Rittenhouse right to self defence trumps the right of his victims to...try not to be murdered...effectively an endorsement for the “right” of white supremacists to commit extra-legal violence to 'monitor/survey', intimidate, assault & yes murder protesters - defaqto veto of protests.
They've effectively made stand your ground (which oddly Wi technically isn't...mobile. Including up to proestors you threaten (and all the other hoopla). Whilst also turning self defense away from an affirmative position for defense.
I mean this guy went across state lines to a protests with an illegal AR rifle that night...how surprising he ended up having to "defend" himself.
This is just going to radicalize people against the judiciary and increase vigilante acts by the far right and anyone sufficiently angry at the DoJ's injustice to undertake vigilante acts against the people who get away with murder.
Vigilantism seems more and more attractive by the day.
Met my own little fascist neckbeard banana split tonight who seemed quite emboldened by the verdict. Although they're not exactly hiding themselves at the best of times over here.
A regular reminder that many Tories are white supremacists at heart and it isn’t just America that needs to worry about fascism.
You can see that in the regular paeans to the European fascists like Zenmour and Orban you get in the Spectator (and for which Montgomerie is also guilty).
Big win for Biden and the Dems, getting the social spending plan through the House, despite a recording-breaking filibuster attempt by some Republican twat to delay the vote.
Now watch the DINOs get rid of the best bits in the Senate... . It is truly staggering the lengths powerful people will go to prevent less fortunate people receiving support.
The Rittenhouse verdict was always going to happen as the Judge deemed anything at all Rittenhouse done in the past couldn’t be brought up, not crimes but his wish to be a vigilante and his racist language.
. It is truly staggering the lengths powerful people will go to prevent less fortunate people receiving support.
