US Politics 3

Moggy wrote:

Tomous wrote:Indeed. Imagine if it was a black kid on the court stand right now.


Well, he'd have been shot by the police in the same situation so it's a pointless comparison I guess.

They shot a 12 year old black kid who had a toy gun.

It was dark, he couldnt see. He had a ray gun, it looked real enough. You know, when you're a rookie, they can teach you everything about being a cop except how to live with a mistake.

I think that movie is beautiful in a way most people don't realise. John gives Al the best Christmas gift of all...the ability to shoot people.

Shoot. The glass!

Yep constitutionalists would be up in arms if it was a black person in the Rittenhouse situation. FWIW, the law in the US is shanked, he will likely get off because what he did is legally allowed, and that's messed up. The way I see it, if he had a knife and used that instead to the same result, self defence wouldn't fly.

It should be the same with guns, but 2A is just the most utterly bizarre "right" I could ever imagine.

When it comes to the law in the US, there's no way he's getting convicted of murder.

If the murder charge doesn't stick, the lesser charges probably won't stick either.

captain red dog wrote:If the murder charge doesn't stick, the lesser charges probably won't stick either.

Surely in most cases the murder charge is going to be hardest one to stick?


The judge has scrapped the lesser charges in this instance anyway

He's getting off with it. I'll be surprised if he doesn't.

twitter.com/macfarlanenews/status/1461013676400562185

Deserves the sentence. But seeing that pic yet again, Capitol security should be on trial for such an outrageous breach too. I've no idea how that happens without complicity. Imagine if the same thing happened in parliament, the entire security system would be totally revised.

This isn't some kind of Q conspiracy, it's just utterly horrendous security around the most powerful government in the world. The fact they let these losers get to the senate chamber is just a complete farce.

captain red dog wrote: Imagine if the same thing happened in parliament, the entire security system would be totally revised.

It did happen here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s.hunting1

The difference in the US was that there were thousands of protesters, all potentially armed. The Capitol security were overwhelmed.

It's not their fault.

Oh and as for "the entire system would be revised", the CA invasion of Parliament happened just months after this happened: https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ommons.uk2

If he personally was not threatening or violent or carrying a weapon, the sentence seems a little harsh. I guess he's seen as a figurehead of the conspiracy nutters, can understand wanting to discourage a repeat. There's a precedent where people have protested inside the Senate previously and received a citation & fine, not a prison sentence.

Moggy wrote:

captain red dog wrote: Imagine if the same thing happened in parliament, the entire security system would be totally revised.

It did happen here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s.hunting1

The difference in the US was that there were thousands of protesters, all potentially armed. The Capitol security were overwhelmed.

It's not their fault.

Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.

Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.

The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.

Moggy wrote:

captain red dog wrote: Imagine if the same thing happened in parliament, the entire security system would be totally revised.

It did happen here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s.hunting1

The difference in the US was that there were thousands of protesters, all potentially armed. The Capitol security were overwhelmed.

It's not their fault.

The then-Secretary of Defense was called on several times by officials, including Pence, was he not? He refused to bring in the National Guard. He is ultimately the one who must answer for what happened. Him and Trump.

captain red dog wrote:Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.

Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.

The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.

No we had TV coverage of the Commons. And yes it was the main chamber.

So you are clear that it is not the fault of the Capitol security. But you also think they should be on trial and you can't see how it happened without complicity?

You know people died in the Capitol? And that four Capitol security personnel committed suicide in the months after the attack?

Stuart wrote:If he personally was not threatening or violent or carrying a weapon, the sentence seems a little harsh. I guess he's seen as a figurehead of the conspiracy nutters, can understand wanting to discourage a repeat. There's a precedent where people have protested inside the Senate previously and received a citation & fine, not a prison sentence.

This was an insurrection not a protest, pretty big strawberry floating difference.

If anything his sentence is light, but he pled guilty and showed remorse which would have helped his case.

Moggy wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.

Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.

The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.

No we had TV coverage of the Commons. And yes it was the main chamber.

So you are clear that it is not the fault of the Capitol security. But you also think they should be on trial and you can't see how it happened without complicity?

You know people died in the Capitol? And that four Capitol security personnel committed suicide in the months after the attack?

Being on trial is a bit hyperbole from myself (although I would note that Bannon is facing charges), but there are definitely serious questions to be asked of security around the capitol that day.

Yes I'm aware of the deaths. Not sure what that changes, the security failure was as shocking as the insurrectionists were despicable. The entire thing was a massive stain on the US, and the reaction has been almost non existent.

The insurrectionists need to be suitably punished. Security needs to be severely reviewed and reformed. The previous administration needs to be hauled over the grill for what happened.

captain red dog wrote:

Moggy wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Surprised at that, legit never heard about it. Did they storm the main chamber? I guess that was before the time when we had coverage of everything that happens in the commons.

Want to be clear, I'm not saying it is the fault of Capitol security, but for that to happen as visibly as it did is a real shame on how good government security is in the US.

The fault clearly lies with those idiotic, treacherous protestors, but to allow them to basically take over the seat of world government is just astonishing. I'll never really understand how those losers were allowed to get so far, security had plenty of notice.

No we had TV coverage of the Commons. And yes it was the main chamber.

So you are clear that it is not the fault of the Capitol security. But you also think they should be on trial and you can't see how it happened without complicity?

You know people died in the Capitol? And that four Capitol security personnel committed suicide in the months after the attack?

Being on trial is a bit hyperbole from myself (although I would note that Bannon is facing charges), but there are definitely serious questions to be asked of security around the capitol that day.

Yes I'm aware of the deaths. Not sure what that changes, the security failure was as shocking as the insurrectionists were despicable. The entire thing was a massive stain on the US, and the reaction has been almost non existent.

The insurrectionists need to be suitably punished. Security needs to be severely reviewed and reformed. The previous administration needs to be hauled over the grill for what happened.

All the security procedures in the world is going to be useless when a mob of thousands of people storm a building.

The deaths don't change what happened, but they highlight that your "complicity" comment is wrong and is in poor taste. There was not really much security could do when faced with a huge mob that has stormed the building with the aim of killing people.

twitter.com/johnfugelsang/status/1461181241504501761