Islamic State

NickSCFC wrote:

Falsey wrote:are there any instances ever where just bombing the bad guys over and over has 'won' the conflict and returned the region to peace?

Killed an ideology overnight and, arguably, went on to create the greatest country ever.

Yep, there were no soldiers on the ground at all during the conflct with Japan....

I assume you are being facetious and not just incredibly dense, but rapid nuclear bombing after actual years of air, ground, and sea warfare onto a economically, financially, geographically and numerically crippled foe is not quite in the same league as contained surgical strikes on individual targets

Well Russian troops on the ground is looking more and more likely...

http://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article ... Assad.html

ok so you are just incredibly dense then

got it

Falsey wrote:ok so you are just incredibly dense then

got it

For posting a link to a Mail Online article?

Get over yourself.

Falsey wrote:tbh there is no end for a group that can quite happily exist as guerilla splinter factions

I don't think that really applies to ISIS. They need territory in order to create a caliphate, so once they lose that then they lose their "mandate" (so to speak) and would cease to be ISIS. Obviously they'd all still crazy Jihadists but wouldn't be as organised or structured.

This article explains it all in great detail (very good read if you've got the time).

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Ill have a look at that later, Preezy. The issue is that whilst they may be less of a 'legitimate caliphate' having had to cede land to a proper ground assualt, or just a crippling from air assaults, there is still a large army of people there who do want what to achieve what they are trying to win there, and I dont see it in their sights to surrender because they have lost a local foothold.

well, crazies gonna craze

I don't think the current ISIS/Islamic extremism problem is ever something that will be solved. You can only bomb people so much, you'll never get them all and they'll always be able to recruit new members. And you can't enter peace talks with them because not only would that validate them and give them a platform, but they are literally hell bent on murdering all of us and imposing their medieval interpretation of Islam on the world (so Islam, if you like) and will never accept co-existing with the rest of us.

Bit of a pickle really.

The ideology won't be going anywhere soon, but the failure to establish a state across northern Syria/Iraq will do serious damage to their momentum.

A lot of foreign Jihadis, many from Europe, have become jaded and have decided to return home. Would a new campaign to establish a caliphate somewhere in Africa in the future attract the same level of hype?

Lucien wrote:

Moggy wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Falsey wrote:are there any instances ever where just bombing the bad guys over and over has 'won' the conflict and returned the region to peace?

Killed an ideology overnight and, arguably, went on to create the greatest country ever.

Yep, there were no soldiers on the ground at all during the conflct with Japan....

There were no American soldiers in Japan. But really your point is missing the fact that if America could have bombed Japan immediately with nukes, it could have done so and ended the war. Pretty hard to do that when you can't deliver said nukes.

Well we weren't really talking about nukes in the first place but bombing raids and how they rarely (if ever) lead to a total surrender by the enemy.

There were plenty of ground forces and naval forces involved in the campaign against Japan in WW2 and so it wasn't just bombing over and over again.

When you add nukes to the mix then sure you can win overnight. That's not particularly relevant to the ISIS situation though unless you are supporting Trump's idea of nuking them.

When people say "nukes" everyone assumes it's the end-of-the-world-massive-mushroom-cloud-city-destroyers when in fact the US has lots of low-yield tactical nukes that destroy a large area but don't have the same level of destruction as a megaton bomb.

I remember reading an article back during the second Gulf War when there was supposed evidence that the US had used low-yield tactical nukes on Iraqi forces as there were certain characteristics in the bombed areas that had hallmarks of nuclear weapons (scorch marks and other CSI level gooseberry fool). Interesting stuff if you're into that sort of thing.

Edit: I just realised I didn't actually make a point with this post so errr yeah

Dropping any nuke is a recipe for worldwide condemnation, regardless of the payload. Not exactly viable when you are trying to win a hearts and minds war.

Oh no of course and I'd agree with you completely on that. All I'm saying is that it wouldn't surprise me if the US did use low-yield nukes on ISIS, they'd never admit to it publicly of course.

Preezy wrote:When people say "nukes" everyone assumes it's the end-of-the-world-massive-mushroom-cloud-city-destroyers when in fact the US has lots of low-yield tactical nukes that destroy a large area but don't have the same level of destruction as a megaton bomb.

I remember reading an article back during the second Gulf War when there was supposed evidence that the US had used low-yield tactical nukes on Iraqi forces as there were certain characteristics in the bombed areas that had hallmarks of nuclear weapons (scorch marks and other CSI level gooseberry fool). Interesting stuff if you're into that sort of thing.

Edit: I just realised I didn't actually make a point with this post so errr yeah

Phew! What a relief!

Isn't the whole reason why ISIS has attracted so many recruits from Iraq, and to a degree Syria, the fact that they can't get jobs, and that they (those in their particular Islamic sect) feel isolated and marginalized?

Pro Tip for Curing ISIS: Economic regeneration, political inclusion, infrastructure renewal and modernization. Jerbs!

Of course, it may be too late for that to be really effective, but it would have strawberry floating worked at one point.

Anyway here's Wonderwall.

Alvin Flummux wrote:Isn't the whole reason why ISIS has attracted so many recruits from Iraq, and to a degree Syria, the fact that they can't get jobs, and that they (those in their particular Islamic sect) feel isolated and marginalized?

Pro Tip for Curing ISIS: Economic regeneration, political inclusion, infrastructure renewal and modernization. Jerbs!

Of course, it may be too late for that to be really effective, but it would have strawberry floating worked at one point.

Anyway here's Wonderwall.

I'm not quite sure giving some people jobs is going to solve the ISIS issue.

degoose wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:Isn't the whole reason why ISIS has attracted so many recruits from Iraq, and to a degree Syria, the fact that they can't get jobs, and that they (those in their particular Islamic sect) feel isolated and marginalized?

Pro Tip for Curing ISIS: Economic regeneration, political inclusion, infrastructure renewal and modernization. Jerbs!

Of course, it may be too late for that to be really effective, but it would have strawberry floating worked at one point.

Anyway here's Wonderwall.

I'm not quite sure giving some people jobs is going to solve the ISIS issue.

I don't think it will either, but it might help stop the next version of ISIS from springing up if/when ISIS are defeated.

Moggy wrote:

degoose wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:Isn't the whole reason why ISIS has attracted so many recruits from Iraq, and to a degree Syria, the fact that they can't get jobs, and that they (those in their particular Islamic sect) feel isolated and marginalized?

Pro Tip for Curing ISIS: Economic regeneration, political inclusion, infrastructure renewal and modernization. Jerbs!

Of course, it may be too late for that to be really effective, but it would have strawberry floating worked at one point.

Anyway here's Wonderwall.

I'm not quite sure giving some people jobs is going to solve the ISIS issue.

I don't think it will either, but it might help stop the next version of ISIS from springing up if/when ISIS are defeated.

I'm not really sure it would stop it, i think you mean people joining an extreme religion rather than the religion and group existing.

degoose wrote:

Moggy wrote:

degoose wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:Isn't the whole reason why ISIS has attracted so many recruits from Iraq, and to a degree Syria, the fact that they can't get jobs, and that they (those in their particular Islamic sect) feel isolated and marginalized?

Pro Tip for Curing ISIS: Economic regeneration, political inclusion, infrastructure renewal and modernization. Jerbs!

Of course, it may be too late for that to be really effective, but it would have strawberry floating worked at one point.

Anyway here's Wonderwall.

I'm not quite sure giving some people jobs is going to solve the ISIS issue.

I don't think it will either, but it might help stop the next version of ISIS from springing up if/when ISIS are defeated.

I'm not really sure it would stop it, i think you mean people joining an extreme religion rather than the religion and group existing.

ISS gained momentum and strength only because it could (and still does) recruit from a large local pool of disaffected, isolated, unemployed poor people.