Watchmen - Offical Thread - USE SPOILER TAGS!

[TheTurnipKing]

Solid 7/10. Good for the most part but some of the cuts meant the story lost some of the charm. Would have liked more time spent on the original Minutemen/Veidt/the newpaper stand owner.

I don't agree, to be honest. The focus is spot on for the movie. The background around the original Minutemen and the newspaper stand... They needed to be trimmed. The movie is already bursting with "stuff" which is far more important.

Though yeah, Veidt could have done with a little more fleshing out. More "origin" stuff that sets him up, lets you see him as easily the most powerful of the non-metahuman heroes, and Bubastis should have been a constant companion - as it is, she only pops up at the end and you're like "where the hell did that come from" if you've never read the original.

you think they could have pushed through and shown the real consequences of Veidt's plan.

I think that's what Drieberg's outburst after Rorschach's death is partly about - "You've mutilated it!", but you're right, it's hardly the same.

[Powers]

I didn't enjoy this. The fight scenes seemed to use excessive violence just because that's Zack Snyder's "thing".

The ending didn't quite make as much sense as a giant strawberry float off squid, Veidt was just wrong, as was the sex scene and the constant musical references.

However, Dr M. was spot on, and his flashback scene was easily the highlight of the film. The only thing missing was him knowing he'd get bored of the photograph and dropping it at his feet and walking away, but oh well.

In the sense that Dr Manhattan is just as alien to humans as a gigantic squid was, I don't think it was that change that spoiled things a little.

I think it made Veidt look a little simplistic though. There was none of the stuff about kidnapping the world's greatest artistic talents to help create something so mind-blowingly twisted it'd literally scare people to death and leave survivors emotionally destroyed. In which case you could say Veidt didn't just think aliens would be a common enemy - he could associate insanity with it. The initial blast had to have fall out. It was mentioned how people were still being admitted to hospital, thinking their babies were eating them from the inside.

The film lost that, though, I think. And I guess you could blame 9/11 for making Americans in particular so selectively sensitive to such matters. Y'know, it's fine to show dogs eating six year old girls; and it's fine to glorify Vietnam (studio CEOs wanting to make America look successful, fnar); but the destruction of New York and the atrocities of it? Nah, too close to the bone.

There was also Dr Manhattan's last remark to Veidt, "it never ends." Which was there to say that Veidt's plan was still far too short sighted and not even he was smart enough to avoid that. I guess they compensated by showing his despair as Dan and Laurie leave though.

The film didn't, at least, butcher the comic. I guess Hayter just made it as faithful as he possibly could.

The main flaw I could see in the ending was the fact that Dr. M was American, which was stressed greatly throughout the film, as it was in the book. The idea that America has been using Dr M. for foreign policy all these years and then he's suddenly responsible (in the public's eyes) for the destruction of major cities would definitely land some of the blame in the USA's hands. The giant enemy squid was completely alien and as such an entirely outside threat.

Your points are spot on though; as Taffy says above, it had an unnecessary amount of violence throughout the film except for the one place where it was really needed. There was no shock or horror, it was simply a bunch of craters. The only satisfying thing about the explosion in the film was the inclusion of the Bernie hug, which even then was completely undermined by them being unknown characters in the film.

[TheTurnipKing]

Bernie hug

Apparently, I missed this in both. What's is this, exactly?

[Powers]

Though yeah, Veidt could have done with a little more fleshing out. More "origin" stuff that sets him up, lets you see him as easily the most powerful of the non-metahuman heroes, and Bubastis should have been a constant companion - as it is, she only pops up at the end and you're like "where the hell did that come from" if you've never read the original.

That reminds me, wasn't Bubastis basically in the book to signify the advances made in genetics, leading up to the giant squid? While cutting her would have pissed off quite a lot of fans, there wasn't really much reason for her being in the film, was there?

The Bernie hug was the hug between the news stand guy and the guy reading the Tales of the Black Freighter. Throughout the book they said little to each other, despite spending quite a lot of time next to one another. Near the end (I can't remember exactly when) they discover that they share the same name: Bernie.

[Cuttooth]

Bernie hug

Apparently, I missed this in both. What's is this, exactly?

At the end of Chapter 11 the two Bernies (the newsvendor and the comic reading boy) hug as the squid teleports into New York. Their profile also turns into the bloodstain image used throughout the book.

[TheTurnipKing]

That reminds me, wasn't Bubastis basically in the book to signify the advances made in genetics, leading up to the giant squid? While cutting her would have pissed off quite a lot of fans, there wasn't really much reason for her being in the film, was there?

Unless I've missed something else, no. She might as well not have been there.

Gotta admit that I didn't even realise those guys had a name.

[Count Nood]

Just got back from the cinema. I'm a Watchmen n00b, having never read the graphic novel, but I loved this. 9/10.

[Mr Thropwimp]

It's quite funny seeing how much a film has left out of its source material. I guess it shows up a lot more just because it aims to stay so faithful for the best part.

I'm glad they got the Hiroshima silhouette in too. Rorschach's musing about a simple shadow of two seedy lovers in a doorway being so romantic in a different context was probably one of my favourite bits of imagery in the book.

[Ironhide]

Can someone sum up the basic premise of the graphic novel(s)/film for an utter Watchmen Noob.

is it just a violent, darker version of the X-men, or is there more to it?

[Tafdolphin]

Can someone sum up the basic premise of the graphic novel(s)/film for an utter Watchmen Noob.

is it just a violent, darker version of the X-men, or is there more to it?

It's a deconstruction of the Super Hero genre, and to sum it up in a few sentences would hardly do justice to the magnificent writing, extrodinarily detailed art and ingenius plot.*

That said; An ex-costumed hero is killed. Another "mask" makes it his mission to find out why and by who. Along the way we are introduced to the history of this alternate 1985 with backstories of the last generation of masks and the effect they've had on society.

That's the non-spoiler version, obviously.

*It also makes X-men look like a...well, just a comic.

[SuperFinal]

What Taffy just said... Wikipedia's also worth actually not worth a scan.

Watchmen takes place in an alternate history United States where superheroes emerged in the 1940s and 1960s, helping the United States to win the Vietnam War. The country is edging closer to a nuclear war with the Soviet Union, freelance costumed vigilantes have been outlawed and most costumed superheroes are in retirement or working for the government. The story focuses on the personal development and struggles of the protagonists as an investigation into the murder of a government sponsored superhero pulls them out of retirement and eventually leads them to confront a plot to kill millions of innocent people.

[Irene Demova]

Wiki=massive spoilers do not go on it

[SuperFinal]

Hense the spoiler on the last line, you divvy.

[Irene Demova]

Last edited by SuperFinal on Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[SuperFinal]

Last edited by SuperFinal on Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Mr Thropwimp]

Can someone sum up the basic premise of the graphic novel(s)/film for an utter Watchmen Noob.

is it just a violent, darker version of the X-men, or is there more to it?

It's a deconstruction of the Super Hero genre, and to sum it up in a few sentences would hardly do justice to the magnificent writing, extrodinarily detailed art and ingenius plot.*

That said; An ex-costumed hero is killed. Another "mask" makes it his mission to find out why and by who. Along the way we are introduced to the history of this alternate 1985 with backstories of the last generation of masks and the effect they've had on society.

That's the non-spoiler version, obviously.

*It also makes X-men look like a...well, just a comic.

As far as plot goes, I don't think it's anything special at all. The rest of it is what sets it out.

[Tafdolphin]

Can someone sum up the basic premise of the graphic novel(s)/film for an utter Watchmen Noob.

is it just a violent, darker version of the X-men, or is there more to it?

It's a deconstruction of the Super Hero genre, and to sum it up in a few sentences would hardly do justice to the magnificent writing, extrodinarily detailed art and ingenius plot.*

That said; An ex-costumed hero is killed. Another "mask" makes it his mission to find out why and by who. Along the way we are introduced to the history of this alternate 1985 with backstories of the last generation of masks and the effect they've had on society.

That's the non-spoiler version, obviously.

*It also makes X-men look like a...well, just a comic.

As far as plot goes, I don't think it's anything special at all. The rest of it is what sets it out.

Maybe the plot isn't the defining factor, but it still exceeds the vast majority of other "plots" in the medium. It makes the most elaborate X-men story looks simplistic and shallow.

[Fallen Phoenix]

Just seen this. Absolutely brilliant, didn't hate a single part. Even the overacted fight scenes weren't as bad I expected. The Comedian and Rorschach were portrayed perfectly (had my doubts bout Rorschach after watching the Film4 preeiw last night). Only thing I did find was the first half seemed to drag a little, really seemed to suffer from following the source a little closely.
Apart from that little niggle i'd go watch it again in an instant.

But...

I've never seen so many people walk out of a film half way through. Also, as I came out I overheard several groups asking themselves "what the strawberry float was that film" so obviously all the hype and trailers are building it to be something the mainstream isnt fully going to appreciate

Roll on Watchmen on Blu Ray.

[Tafdolphin]

Just seen this. Absolutely brilliant, didn't hate a single part.

Not even the love scene?

[Fallen Phoenix]

Just seen this. Absolutely brilliant, didn't hate a single part.

Not even the love scene?

Not even the love scene. It was a little over the top, but tbh I didn't really care.