Met wrote:I don't know what you want from Mario Kart, in that case. Because outside of the aspects which seem to just be "I want it to be a different genre" or are, frankly, superfluous to the game itself, it seems to do everything you want.
You ask for themed tracks and we have courses based on major Mario levels. You ask for themed items and we're throwing around mushrooms, stars and shells. The game draws from Mario history plenty. Hell, it's even moved into pulling from other Nintendo games.
The only point that really holds water is the speed of the game and layout of the tracks. And to that, yeah, we have 200cc and if that's not enough maybe you want to play a different game. As for track design, I wouldn't mind narrower courses, but the level of bullshit in the game would make it a clusterfuck, potentially not in the fun way.
I'll copy over my replies from rllmuk as a shortcut to further detailing, should just about make sense without the stuff I'm quoting.
MK64 is probably the better multiplayer game. But DKR is the better singleplayer, and still is. Replaying it recently it wasn't just a nostalgia rush, it's genuinely good. The silver coin challenge idea isn't new or bold, but it just reminded me how simply satisfying a kart racing game can be, needing to take these difficult lines and routes whilst still maintaining a good lead. DKR came out of nowhere at the time, it was the sheer adventure of the game, the ease at which it innovated, Rare were peerless at the time for all the ideas they'd include in their games, that as a teenager was so exciting. Around that time Beetle Adventure Racing came out as well, as well as Snowboard Kids. Now, to others these might be rough games, but i don't care about polish personally. Their enthusiasm mattered more, and in a way, like Rockstar's PS2 games, the roughness added to their charm.
The obvious point about the space levels was the surprise, even though they're brilliant anyway with some great music. It wouldn't be nearly as cool just unlocking a new cup, you had to enter the hub and be in awe of the potential. And space isn't all that out there, but none of its zones hinted at entering that type of theme.
I think, really, how can racing games in the late 90s inspire more than the ones 20 years later?
I hate all forms of tacky glitz, and want continuity with the original Super Mario Bros. This is a stylistic taste thing maybe others disagree with. I wouldn't want blocks on the ground like Super Mario Kart but they've obviously tried different things before settling on the ? diamond boxes of MK64, wanting them to be sparkling and stand out, even if it looks tacky.
I want a visual purity to the series, i think it's fine Mario Party carries the gloss, i think Mario Kart ought to dial back on the excess. I think most people focus on just the unfairness in the games, like Kalimari Desert I read is awful because the train offers too much randomness, but i love the visual minimalism of the level and always thought the train was simple and brilliant. I like M64's tracks for their length, and the sparse backgrounds, there's a peacefulness to being way out in front of the rest. Tbh, your opinions on MK64 in the past far exceed my whole post in terms of an alternative take, though they are very interesting.
It's not yearning for the past, it's identifying the giant leaps made THEN and the feeling it gave THEN, and wanting new games in a genre to make similiar leaps, aware of the 20 years of pop culture everyone has consumed in the mean time. So, merely carrying on where DKR left the genre wouldn't be enough. Beetle Adventure Racing had you leap through the air into a volcano and dodge T Rexs, both exciting then as a teenager when a few years before I was racing around a dirt course driving a Sabaru. I want a kart racing game to be strawberry floating mental, I want an embrace of full on glitching, I want to race through the falling vomit of an alien, I want to be at the mercy of an malevolent robot, I want tracks that morph and transform, a lap to lap major restructuring, a track that's graphically unfinished why not, a Daffy Duck style being drawn as you race 4th wall breaking perception altering.
But it is Nintendo I know. Could at least have done a Pikmin level. All those creatures.
Item boxes: They don't really need to stand out if they pop up in your path every 10 seconds of a race, it's just a preference really, meant to express how simple and dry and minimal the graphics could be. I want more of the playfulness I think of something like Yoshi's Island, graphically more in tune with that and the original Super Mario Bros. Yoshi's Island uses monsters and creatures in a way few games do. Mario Kart picks a theme for a level then constructs it, it's not an organic approach really, they define too much of what you expect before you even begin to race. Just realised there's a subway level in the recent ones, urgh. So yeah..less literal, more expressionistic and playful. It's really the opposite of realism I want. So Nintendo might do a 'Monster Land' and it might be as sterile as walking around a toy shop or something, i want more elegance and interactivity rather than just excessive graphical detail littering the track.
I mean, Neo Bowser City looks cool in the fly over, but it's all prettiness kept at a distance, and doesn't tie into Bowser at all. I think Toad's Turnpike in M64 makes little sense as well, but it's at least an idea not seen before, and distinct with it. One of the first tracks I tried and was pretty amazed by it. Mario is supposed to be part of a created world, and Mario Kart should add to it. The update of Toad's Turnpike in Double Dash did away with the dodging trucks on the motorway aspect except for a tiny bit of the track which seemed so confused. They re use far too many of the same tricks, jumps landing on mushrooms, the track splitting off, the odd underwater splash, rotating hazards. MK64 at the least was more pure with it, Yoshi Valley fitted the character and was pretty mysterious, not knowing who was in first place. If you're going to do a track with multiple routes where you have to figure out the quickest way , yeah why not commit to it entirely? They could expand on these ideas. So Nintendo apply the general form to every track, regardless of how inventive it appears. They're not being specific, thinking; this track will go heavily in this direction. So by 'purity' i include this.