Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst

Anything to do with games at all.

Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst

Poll ended at Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:13 pm

Donkey Kong
0
No votes
F-Zero
16
48%
Earthbound
1
3%
Extreme Sports (Wave Race / 1080 / Excitbike)
2
6%
Metroid
3
9%
Paper Mario
4
12%
Star Fox
7
21%
Yoshi
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 33
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Captain Kinopio
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PostWhich Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Captain Kinopio » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:13 pm

Shamelessly stolen from GameFAQs Message Boards user Spring-Loaded, because it’s fun to rag on Nintendo...

Though it's difficult to directly compare different series because of different number of releases or time frames, and then try to gauge how well they were treated relative to what they "deserved," but let's do it anyway.

You can pick a series like Ice Climbers or Mach Rider because they've only gotten one game, or you can pick a series like Yoshi or Kirby where it's gotten many games, but you consider it's had too little expansion or innovation.

–––

I choose Star Fox, because despite getting a decent number of regular releases over the past ~30 years, the majority of those have been weird experiments that didn't necessarily serve the experience of playing them. The original and 64/Lylat Wars were great and well-received, but after that was a series of titles diverging away from what made the first couple games enjoyable.

Star Fox: Adventures (2002) came out 5 years after SF64/LW, and was a reskinning of N64's Dinosaur Planet, a Zelda-like experience. It was an OK game with some shortcomings, and a weird direction for the Star Fox series. It shared virtually no connective tissue with the previous game—even ignoring the obvious structural and gameplay differences, it wasn't even combat- or score attack-focused. It didn't capitalise on existing settings or characters, and, logically, it felt like a completely different series with Fox McCloud shoved in there. Anyone hoping for a better and/or more expanded vehicle-based shooter would not find that here.

Star Fox: Assault (2005) would go back to high-tech, fantastical warfare while introducing greatly expanded infantry combat comapared to the unlockable bazooka option in the N64 multiplayer. Having levels with fights and objectives taking place both on the ground and into the skies, or inside and outside a space station was a cool concept, but mid-2000s TPS controls did not make for an especially polished experience. Entering and ejecting out of ships seamlessly was cool, and all the weapons and vehicles made for potentially fun multiplayer despite the controls. However, the main game's short campaign, its less briskly-paced, replayable mission deisgn compared to 64, and lack of branching level paths felt like set-backs that the novelty of on-foot, vehicle-swapping mechanics didn't make up for, for many.

Star Fox: Command (2006) brought back branching mission paths from 64, and included multiple playable characters in its campaign, each with unique ships with their own abilities. The branching paths would lead to different team compositions, affecting the plot and character interactions, culminating in 16 different endings. The missions involved plotting courses through maps, drawing paths for each wingman to take, and trying to intercept enemies and missiles targeting the player's mobile base. While all that was cool, the samey gameplay sequences that were almost entirely "all-range mode," made for a repetitive experience throughout—just generally open, flat and/or empty environments. Enemy variety could only go so far in combatting the uninteresting structure of encounters.

There was a Star Fox 64 re-release on 3DS (2011), and it was cool. Not much done with it beyond visual upgrades though

Star Fox: Zero (2016) brought back a focus on score attack gameplay, on-rails levels, and vehicle combat. However, it was built entirely upon the dual-screen concept from a Miyamoto prototype. The control scheme did function, and provided a potentially higher-degree of control for players where they could aim in a different direction while steering the ship in another ... but this did not prove intuitive for many, even hardcore fans of the series. While the gyro aiming allowed for more challenging all-range mode encounters with more mobile enemies, they also served as a barrier of entry that wasn't worth it to surmount for subsets of the audience. The focus on building a game around this concept and having it render two separate views simultaneously meant the visuals could be underwhelming in spots, and while there were a few standout levels, there were some that clearly felt tacked on and under baked, likely added after it was delayed from 2015 to 2016. A divisive game, and one that did few favours for the series, which is now in an uncertain position.

The "cancellation" of Star Fox 2 (2017) also sucked, and while it's neat it got to release 22 years later, it was denied a chance back in '95, even though Super Famicom titles would continue to release past that time. Even if it looked bad relative to PlayStation output, graphically, it's still a bit of a missed opportunity for the series.

I nominate Star Fox because it has almost never gotten a chance to get an improved sequel—each game feels like some weird, new experiment rather than a game fundamentally built to be an enjoyable experience. For the level of mindshare the series has (typing "do a barrel roll" into Google still does the thing), it has been handled messily.


I think when we’re talking about ‘mishandled’ as opposed to flat out dropped (Sorry F-Zero), it has to be Star Fox doesn’t it?

I mean Paper Mario probably hurts a bit more because of how much I used to enjoy it but it really seems like Star Fox could be something if the higher ups weren’t so stubborn about how it was rehashed. It has a fun cast of marketable characters but man they just keep churning out gooseberry fool when what the series needs is so obvious to everyone else.

Metroid I think would be a close second, again because of the mass market appeal the series could so obviously have. At least it kind of seems like they’re trying to give it a bit of a reboot though. We’ll see.

Interested in what the rest of GR thinks.

Last edited by Captain Kinopio on Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Lagamorph » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:25 pm

Star Fox Zero was such an abomination of controls that it 'wins' for me.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Tomous » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:26 pm

It has to be Starfox. Nintendo just don't know what to do with it. It is such a wasted opportunity considering how fun the characters and world is.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Godzilla » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:34 pm

If they re released the 3ds version of Star Fox 64 on switch with upscaled visuals I'd pay £60 for it. Same goes for F zero. No chance of Nintendo doing anything with them apart from Smash.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Balladeer » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:35 pm

I’m going for the unpopular choice of Paper Mario. Been in a death spiral since the second game. At least for example Earthbound has been allowed to rest peacefully on its laurels. And it’s fallen from such a great height that it gets ‘bonus points’ for that.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Mafro » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:35 pm

Two obvious ones are F-Zero (hasn't had a new entry in 15 years) and Mother (first entry never made it out of Japan until the release of the NES Classic, second entry only came out in Europe on the Wii U VC, third entry never made it out of Japan)

No way it's Star Fox, the series peaked with Star Fox 64 and it's had plenty of entries since then. No way it's Metroid either ffs :lol: :fp: It's had at least one entry on every console apart from the N64 and DS (I'd include the Wii U too but that got the Prime Trilogy, Other M and the GBA games on the VC). Paper Mario has had good games every generation, people really need to let their TTYD nostalgia go.

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Clarkman
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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Clarkman » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:54 pm

From a videogame and quality perspective, it is Pokemon for me. So much complacency. It's such a magic formula and powerful brand that they can get away with anything. It makes me sad.

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Dual
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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Dual » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:55 pm

Mario?

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by plasticcoated » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:02 pm

Too many to vote for...
I guess it'd era dependant.

Metroid has been treated generally well until recently.
Starfox has been tried with but has been left to rot.
F-Zero got forgotten about long ago.

I was actually thinking about this earlier - I did a full on roadmap too - Smash. Use Smash as a yard stick for Nintendo. Now take very single character, standard or Echo and see what games are available to "explore" that character n Switch.

Samus (Dark Samus, Zero Suit Samus and Ridley) has nothing besides Metroid and Super Metroid on Nintendo Online emulators.
Fox (Falco and Wolf) all have at least Ubisofts likeable Switch exclusive content in Starlink as well as the SNES Nintendo Online versions of Starfox and Starfox 2.

Captain Falcon literally has the original F-Zero on the SNES Nintendo Online platform.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Abacus » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:18 pm

I think the question is too long for me to understand. By worst handled, is it;

1. There should have been more games, but they've left it to rot

2. They had a great series, but they messed it up, or

3. They have a great series, but they don't seem to realise it?

I suppose any of those definitions would work.

F-Zero is a funny one for me, it's in the first category. But I don't see many similar racers now, and for me GX was the pinnacle, so maybe there is a reason for that. Whilst I'd have loved GX2, I don't know what they could do more, other than add more tracks. VR would make me spew on that game - couldn't even handle Ace Combat in VR :lol:

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Abacus » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:39 pm

And now to become even more unpopular.

Would disagree that Star Fox has been the most mishandled. Lylat wars was OK, but you don't see that may on rails shooters in that style now. If you do, they are curios. So, what could you reinvent it as?

They tried to branch out in various ways, but I don't think they had anything to work with once the basic formula was broke. These were not likeable characters at all. Slippy the toad? Even Starfox is a right plum as well.

Most Nintendo characters have no real personality. They're just a blank cipher where the real work is done by the fun game underneath. But Starfox characters were the worst, and once their basic game was past its best, there was no reason to keep trying with them.

They've absolutely wasted so much experimental energy on a hopeless franchise. And I'm someone sitting with a cupboard full of unused switch Starlink / Starfox themed junk, which should have been in that roundup as well, so you really can't say they didn't try.

Make it a proper Guardians of the Galaxy type game where those non- characters actually have a personality, then maybe.

Or, then again, just forget that whole bland franchise and make a Guardians of the Galaxy game instead.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Superfurryfox64 » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:44 pm

Starfox . The SNES and 64 games were great. Especially 64... the first Nintendo game with full voice acting AND the first one with full screen non black border NTSC style picture... everyone forgets that. Loved it so much that it was my first N64 game... Mario had to wait

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Peter Crisp » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:50 pm

From my limited knowledge, I'd say Metroid.

The fans seem to be crying out for new Metroid content and Nintendo seem to just drip-feed it out at a snails pace.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Tsunade » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:16 am

I never got to play the original Star Fox all the way through, but I loved what I played at the time. I can't remember what game it was on gamecube but it felt really disconnected to the original games from.what I can remember. I didnt enjoy it as much and ended up leaving it alone as it just felt disappointing.

Earthbound is just legendary and hopefully wont have anything added to the series as I'd worry that it would end up like Paper Mario has done.

Metroid deserves more love. I have a soft spot for it. My friend found a copy of the GB version on her way home from school once and gave it to me after a week of advertising it as a lost item. I didnt understand what I was doing with it at first but I poured a lot of time into it once I got the hang of it. I also had a friend literally break his DS playing the DS version because he pressed to hard on his lower screen whilst shooting. We played a lot of multiplayer at the time too, he easily clocked 700 hours on it before his screen broke. Now though ninty seems to have forgotten all about how much we desperately need a new game out for it.

F-Zero has been long forgotten as a proper nintendo series by them. Any hope of a new game coming out was dashed years ago. I see nintendo just using it for nostalgia purposes in older gamers, using it in Mario Kart 8 as a track and stages in smash with Captain Falco for that reason alone.

I can see Paper Mario as one that they've mishandled. I put hours upon hours into TYD because it was just a genius game that was hilarious, cheeky, and fully entertaining to play. They definitely peaked with TYD. The games that they've released since then I've enjoyed but they've all been missing that spark that TYD had. The characters just don't have that sort of feel to them, they feel rushed and flimsy, the comedy aspect of them isnt the same and the puzzles seem a lot easier. Not to even mention the battle system.

I also think Kirby has been mishandled. Nightmare in Dreamland was a brilliant game that had some parts that took a while to figure out. The side games were fun and quirky that didnt take away from the main game and the levels themselves could take awhile to complete as there were hidden secrets dotted about. Kirby games have easily gotten a lot easier over the years, and now he's ended up with side games that arent like the original games whatsoever.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:37 am

Where’s the Wave Race and 1080 snowboarding sequels?

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Pedz » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:46 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Where’s the Wave Race and 1080 snowboarding sequels?


On the GameCube.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Abacus » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:02 am

Tsunade wrote:I never got to play the original Star Fox all the way through, but I loved what I played at the time. I can't remember what game it was on gamecube but it felt really disconnected to the original games from.what I can remember. I didnt enjoy it as much and ended up leaving it alone as it just felt disappointing.

Earthbound is just legendary and hopefully wont have anything added to the series as I'd worry that it would end up like Paper Mario has done.

Metroid deserves more love. I have a soft spot for it. My friend found a copy of the GB version on her way home from school once and gave it to me after a week of advertising it as a lost item. I didnt understand what I was doing with it at first but I poured a lot of time into it once I got the hang of it. I also had a friend literally break his DS playing the DS version because he pressed to hard on his lower screen whilst shooting. We played a lot of multiplayer at the time too, he easily clocked 700 hours on it before his screen broke. Now though ninty seems to have forgotten all about how much we desperately need a new game out for it.

F-Zero has been long forgotten as a proper nintendo series by them. Any hope of a new game coming out was dashed years ago. I see nintendo just using it for nostalgia purposes in older gamers, using it in Mario Kart 8 as a track and stages in smash with Captain Falco for that reason alone.

I can see Paper Mario as one that they've mishandled. I put hours upon hours into TYD because it was just a genius game that was hilarious, cheeky, and fully entertaining to play. They definitely peaked with TYD. The games that they've released since then I've enjoyed but they've all been missing that spark that TYD had. The characters just don't have that sort of feel to them, they feel rushed and flimsy, the comedy aspect of them isnt the same and the puzzles seem a lot easier. Not to even mention the battle system.

I also think Kirby has been mishandled. Nightmare in Dreamland was a brilliant game that had some parts that took a while to figure out. The side games were fun and quirky that didnt take away from the main game and the levels themselves could take awhile to complete as there were hidden secrets dotted about. Kirby games have easily gotten a lot easier over the years, and now he's ended up with side games that arent like the original games whatsoever.


I agree about a lot of this, except Starfox, but particularly about the humour in TYD. I guess, humour is a very individual thing, so once one or two writers move on, it's never the same.

Not saying that's what happened there, but there are certain games where you do feel a real lurch, just because someone else is making the game. I suppose it's the same with comedy shows.

Anyhow, Kirby has been mishandled to the point where it's just a Smash Bros weirdo.

However, of all the franchises, you'd think that would be the one that could do a massive comeback with current tech and the ability to be ANYTHING. Forget having a new hat.

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:54 am

Pedz wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Where’s the Wave Race and 1080 snowboarding sequels?


On the GameCube.


Sequels to them?

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Balladeer » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:59 am

Abacus wrote:Anyhow, Kirby has been mishandled to the point where it's just a Smash Bros weirdo.

However, of all the franchises, you'd think that would be the one that could do a massive comeback with current tech and the ability to be ANYTHING. Forget having a new hat.

I would disagree with this. Both 3DS games were decent - Robobot in particular was very good. Also he got a Wii U game that somebody talked up only the other day. Star Allies had its share of fans as well I think. I’d say Kirby’s been treated better than Mario has in 2D platformers of late (the Maker games aside).

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PostRe: Which Nintendo series has been handled the worst
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:09 am

Balladeer wrote:
Abacus wrote:Anyhow, Kirby has been mishandled to the point where it's just a Smash Bros weirdo.

However, of all the franchises, you'd think that would be the one that could do a massive comeback with current tech and the ability to be ANYTHING. Forget having a new hat.

I would disagree with this. Both 3DS games were decent - Robobot in particular was very good. Also he got a Wii U game that somebody talked up only the other day. Star Allies had its share of fans as well I think. I’d say Kirby’s been treated better than Mario has in 2D platformers of late (the Maker games aside).


Indeed recent Kirby games have been excellent however it’s never going to have mass market appeal around most of the world.


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