Why aren't you vegan?

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Moggy » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:01 pm

BID0 wrote:Honey is probably the one I get asked about the most. I found out over Christmas that figs aren’t (arguably) vegan either and after learning about the process of the fruit I probably won’t go near one ever again :lol:


Some people say avocados aren’t vegan as well because for cultivation they rely on bees.

User avatar
Ironhide
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Autobot City

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Ironhide » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:10 pm

Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Honey is probably the one I get asked about the most. I found out over Christmas that figs aren’t (arguably) vegan either and after learning about the process of the fruit I probably won’t go near one ever again :lol:


Some people say avocados aren’t vegan as well because for cultivation they rely on bees.


Almost all strawberry floating fruit requires bees or other pollinating insects at some point, they aren't being harmed or exploited in any way, they're just doing what they've done for millions of year.s.

Get a bloody grip.

Image
User avatar
Ironhide
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Autobot City

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Ironhide » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:18 pm


Milk: for a cow (or any animal - including humans) to produce milk they must first give birth. In the case of the dairy industry they are artificially inseminated against their will so they can eventually give birth. Once the calf (or baby animal/human) is born it is taken away from the mother which is obviously very traumatic for the mother and child (there is the bond between them). The calf is slaughtered for veil and the mother is then milked until she is unable to produce milk anymore and then this process is repeate


Do you think female animals ever get to give consent in the wild?

Image
User avatar
Dannie Lennox
Go for it, Danmon!
Joined in 2008
Location: Peach Mountain

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Dannie Lennox » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:39 pm

Ironhide wrote:

Milk: for a cow (or any animal - including humans) to produce milk they must first give birth. In the case of the dairy industry they are artificially inseminated against their will so they can eventually give birth. Once the calf (or baby animal/human) is born it is taken away from the mother which is obviously very traumatic for the mother and child (there is the bond between them). The calf is slaughtered for veil and the mother is then milked until she is unable to produce milk anymore and then this process is repeate


Do you think female animals ever get to give consent in the wild?

The process is, to be fair, very different and not really comparable.

User avatar
Ironhide
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Autobot City

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Ironhide » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:50 pm

Dannie Lennox wrote:
Ironhide wrote:

Milk: for a cow (or any animal - including humans) to produce milk they must first give birth. In the case of the dairy industry they are artificially inseminated against their will so they can eventually give birth. Once the calf (or baby animal/human) is born it is taken away from the mother which is obviously very traumatic for the mother and child (there is the bond between them). The calf is slaughtered for veil and the mother is then milked until she is unable to produce milk anymore and then this process is repeate


Do you think female animals ever get to give consent in the wild?

The process is, to be fair, very different and not really comparable.


It's probably less traumatic than natural insemination, literally a couple of seconds with a probe instead of well, y'know.

Image
User avatar
BID0
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Essex

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by BID0 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:54 pm

whatever you have to tell yourself I guess :lol:

User avatar
Karl_
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Karl_ » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:03 pm

Is there actually any evidence at all that artificial insemination causes dairy cows to feel psychological stress? I understand if performed poorly or too often it can cause irritation to their genitals - and that's bad, there should be regulations to prevent that - but animal rights rhetoric always makes out like they feel "violated" or "raped" or whatever, and that's a very high-order emotion, I doubt a cow can actually self-contextualise in that way.

I am cutting down on meat and particularly beef for climate change reasons anyway so I don't have much skin in the game, I just find the anthropomorphising of these animals to be a bit strange. They are just animals. They shouldn't be made to feel pain but they don't have the same brains we do.

User avatar
Gemini73
Member
Joined in 2019

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Gemini73 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:23 pm

Vegetarians and vegans remind me of dog owners who dress their pets up in superhero costumes because they think these animals are "human" :lol:

User avatar
BID0
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Essex

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by BID0 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:36 pm

Karl_ wrote:Is there actually any evidence at all that artificial insemination causes dairy cows to feel psychological stress? I understand if performed poorly or too often it can cause irritation to their genitals - and that's bad, there should be regulations to prevent that - but animal rights rhetoric always makes out like they feel "violated" or "raped" or whatever, and that's a very high-order emotion, I doubt a cow can actually self-contextualise in that way.

I am cutting down on meat and particularly beef for climate change reasons anyway so I don't have much skin in the game, I just find the anthropomorphising of these animals to be a bit strange. They are just animals. They shouldn't be made to feel pain but they don't have the same brains we do.

Yeh like you I didn't do it for animal welfare reasons. I was unable to watch the videos and my main reason for going vegan was for health/muscle gain/reducing fat in my diet, followed by learning about climate change as I began transitioning to vegetarianism. I agree arguing in those terms is probably not helpful as the majority of people would find it easier to laugh off and ignore as being silly.

Cows aren't the most expressive of animals but the videos I have seen before slaughter/insemination/after birth have shown me that they are distressed in those situations. As for scientific studies I can't imagine there are many, most would be funded by the diary industry or other food lobbying groups (bacon isn't carcinogenic after all so eat as much as you can now). It's not something I really want to look in to too much as it's pretty gross.

However you decide to word things, I can't imagine anyone here will chose to plant their flag on the hill in defence of animals being artificially impregnated and having their baby removed.

User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Moggy » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:40 pm

Ironhide wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Honey is probably the one I get asked about the most. I found out over Christmas that figs aren’t (arguably) vegan either and after learning about the process of the fruit I probably won’t go near one ever again :lol:


Some people say avocados aren’t vegan as well because for cultivation they rely on bees.


Almost all strawberry floating fruit requires bees or other pollinating insects at some point, they aren't being harmed or exploited in any way, they're just doing what they've done for millions of year.s.

Get a bloody grip.


Chill out, I couldn’t give a gooseberry fool if avocados are vegan or made out of buffalo testicles.

User avatar
BID0
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Essex

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by BID0 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:54 pm

Moggy wrote:
Ironhide wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Honey is probably the one I get asked about the most. I found out over Christmas that figs aren’t (arguably) vegan either and after learning about the process of the fruit I probably won’t go near one ever again :lol:


Some people say avocados aren’t vegan as well because for cultivation they rely on bees.


Almost all strawberry floating fruit requires bees or other pollinating insects at some point, they aren't being harmed or exploited in any way, they're just doing what they've done for millions of year.s.

Get a bloody grip.


Chill out, I couldn’t give a gooseberry fool if avocados are vegan or made out of buffalo testicles.

Thanks I'll now have the image of testicles the next time I'm mashing an avocado with a fork :shock:

User avatar
Meep
Member
Joined in 2010
Location: Belfast

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Meep » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:32 pm

I do not want people to get the impression that I am vegetarian because I'm so sentimental about animals. I mean, ideally I am against cruelty, but at the same time in the natural world many animals exist to be preyed upon and I have no objection to that.

The main reason I am opposed to animal based food production is the environmental breakdown currently taking place in our world. Well over 96% of all mammalian biomass on the planet is now either human or livestock. Now, I'm obviously not a fan of killing off humans, but we can at least get rid of the livestock.

User avatar
LightWanderer
Member
Joined in 2018
AKA: AnOpenCasket
Location: Earth

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by LightWanderer » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:59 pm

Meep wrote:Now, I'm obviously not a fan of killing off humans, but we can at least get rid of the livestock.


Isn't that what we're doing by eating them?
A baby goat died today. F.

Image
User avatar
Ecno
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: There're no Wolves

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Ecno » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:30 pm

I was cutting down on my meat consumption, and went fully pescatarian a couple of months ago for a few reasons;

1) Climate change: Number one reason,
2) Animal welfare- I'm against animal pain/cruelty as opposed to actually the killing of animals for food. But we've basically bred chickens to optimise for human consumption and it doesn't sound like they have a great life...
3) I wouldn't be a butcher/abattoir worker- it sounds like pretty grim work and isn't exactly well compensated to offset that. I wouldn't do so it feels unfair for people to do it on my behalf. I'd kill and prepare my own fish though.

I've not gone fully vegan because I don't really enjoy cooking/meal prepping and I'm a slightly fussy eater, so don't always fancy the one vegan option on a menu (but if I do will often pick it). I'm hoping people willing to go full vegan lead the way so it makes it easier for the rest of us.

http://www.phantomgoal.com

Football Betting Analysis and other related topics.
User avatar
Pedz
Twitch Team
Joined in 2009

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Pedz » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:43 pm

But, doesn't reason 1) mean you wouldn't want to be eating fish?

Image
User avatar
Ecno
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: There're no Wolves

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Ecno » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:47 pm

Pedz wrote:But, doesn't reason 1) mean you wouldn't want to be eating fish?


I think fish is better than most meat?

http://www.phantomgoal.com

Football Betting Analysis and other related topics.
User avatar
Pedz
Twitch Team
Joined in 2009

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Pedz » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:02 am

I meant specifically about climate change with fishing. I'm not trying to say don't do eat fish or anything I was curious with climate change and fishing as I assume (I know nothing about it) that it would be a high contributor?

Image
User avatar
Ecno
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: There're no Wolves

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Ecno » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:38 am

Pedz wrote:I meant specifically about climate change with fishing. I'm not trying to say don't do eat fish or anything I was curious with climate change and fishing as I assume (I know nothing about it) that it would be a high contributor?


I was trying to find something on this, I think certain types of fishing are very C02 efficient (i.e. farmed mussels are very light on C02 emissions) and some are worse. But I imagine they're all better than beef.

I did once read that because vegetarians tend me more affluent their diets can be worse for the environment because of all the food miles on their exotic alternatives.

It's really difficult, but at least I know (or assume) no ones cutting down the amazon to catch salmon. If anyone has anything decent on the C02 emissions of different diets I'd be interested.

Another matter is that a lot of marine pollution is discarded fishing gear, and there are some serious human rights issues involved in the fishing trade.

http://www.phantomgoal.com

Football Betting Analysis and other related topics.
User avatar
Pedz
Twitch Team
Joined in 2009

PostRe: Why aren't you vegan?
by Pedz » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:49 am

Fair enough. I've never looked into any of it. It looks like with that kind of issues you look at various sources and work out things like you've done.

Image

Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cuttooth, Edd, Finish.Last, floydfreak, Garth, MSN [Bot], Oblomov Boblomov, PuppetBoy, Qikz, Red 5 stella, Rich, Robbo-92, Rubix, Snowcannon, TonyDA, Wrathy and 67 guests