Will we colonise space in our lifetime?

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Squinty wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Moggy wrote:I think SoK was right. Musk will enslave anybody that goes on his Mars adventure.

Red Faction will be proven correct.

I just played the Outer Worlds and this one of the themes in it as well.

Battles (real and figurative both) fought in the past for workers rights are going to have up be fought all over again.

The trick will be not to fight for them on Mars, the Moon, etc, but to have the rights issue settled long before we even take off; argue from a position of strength, while workers still have Musk, et al over a barrel. Hopefully by the time we do start colonising space, we will have gotten to a point where human and animal rights and environmental concerns are rights which automatically exist wherever we are in the universe. gooseberry fool, that should be something that's being talked about right now so wannabe space lords like Musk and Bezos have time to get used to the idea.

Saint of Killers wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Squinty wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Moggy wrote:I think SoK was right. Musk will enslave anybody that goes on his Mars adventure.

Red Faction will be proven correct.

I just played the Outer Worlds and this one of the themes in it as well.

Battles (real and figurative both) fought in the past for workers rights are going to have up be fought all over again.

The trick will be not to fight for them on Mars, the Moon, etc, but to have the rights issue settled long before we even take off; argue from a position of strength, while workers still have Musk, et al over a barrel. Hopefully by the time we do start colonising space, we will have gotten to a point where human and animal rights and environmental concerns are rights which automatically exist wherever we are in the universe. gooseberry fool, that should be something that's being talked about right now so wannabe space lords like Musk and Bezos have time to get used to the idea.

Musk and Bezos will agree to all of that.

But then once on Mars, you will be at their mercy.

Still, the Martian revolution in 2083 is going to be spectacular.

Will a guillotine work in low gravity?

Dual wrote:Will a guillotine work in low gravity?

Yes, it just means it will only chop halfway through the neck.

Moggy wrote:

Dual wrote:Will a guillotine work in low gravity?

Yes, it just means it will only chop halfway through the neck.

That explains a lot...

Dual wrote:Will a guillotine work in low gravity?

It will if you strap a rocket to it.

I guess it depends on what definition of "colony" we are judging things by. Does it have to be entirely self sufficient to be considered a colony? Is there a minimum number of people that need to be there? Does it have to exist for certain length of time before it qualifies? etc.

I think we will definitely see considerable expansion into space in our lifetime, I mean it was only just over 20 years ago that we got the International Space Station. I can definitely see further, more elaborate manned stations being in place in the next 50 years, whether we have got as far as a permanent colony on somewhere like the moon or Mars is another thing but I'd say it's not out of the question.

Jenuall wrote:I guess it depends on what definition of "colony" we are judging things by. Does it have to be entirely self sufficient to be considered a colony? Is there a minimum number of people that need to be there? Does it have to exist for certain length of time before it qualifies? etc.

I think we will definitely see considerable expansion into space in our lifetime, I mean it was only just over 20 years ago that we got the International Space Station. I can definitely see further, more elaborate manned stations being in place in the next 50 years, whether we have got as far as a permanent colony on somewhere like the moon or Mars is another thing but I'd say it's not out of the question.

That's a good point. Without a definition, it's hard to know what counts as colonising space.

I think the ISS has been permanently manned (or womanned ) for 20 years now. I wouldn't count that as us having colonised space, but there is always a few people up there.

The ISS is about 400km above the Earth. The Moon is about 400,000km. By most definitions the ISS is in space, but it's still well within the Earth's atmosphere - so probably doesn't count for much when we talk about getting off this planet!

If we do establish any permanence on the Moon or Mars, they're still going to be reliant on the Earth for centuries. Moon habitation will probably be transient, given its relative proximity, low gravity and lack of atmosphere - which all contribute to a relative ease of access and return. Interest will be scientific and potentially industrial, but from an outside perspective the Moon is still going to be considered a part of Earth - perhaps not much more than a convenient staging post for Mars missions. Mars colonisation will probably be a one-way ticket and more imaginable as a "colony" in the sense of settlers taking new lands for the purpose of living, with the eventual goal of becoming self-sufficient and separate to Earth, but we'll never see that in our lifetimes for sure.

OrangeRKN wrote:The ISS is about 400km above the Earth. The Moon is about 400,000km. By most definitions the ISS is in space, but it's still well within the Earth's atmosphere - so probably doesn't count for much when we talk about getting off this planet!

If we do establish any permanence on the Moon or Mars, they're still going to be reliant on the Earth for centuries. Moon habitation will probably be transient, given its relative proximity, low gravity and lack of atmosphere - which all contribute to a relative ease of access and return. Interest will be scientific and potentially industrial, but from an outside perspective the Moon is still going to be considered a part of Earth - perhaps not much more than a convenient staging post for Mars missions. Mars colonisation will probably be a one-way ticket and more imaginable as a "colony" in the sense of settlers taking new lands for the purpose of living, with the eventual goal of becoming self-sufficient and separate to Earth, but we'll never see that in our lifetimes for sure.

Exactly. I didn't say I would class the ISS as humans colonising space, but technically it is.

That's why we would need a definition of what a colony is. Out of Earth orbit (counting out the Moon)? Does it count if the colony is completely reliant on Earth (counting out Mars)?

I think in our lifetimes there is a chance we will have a Moon base and maybe a Martian base. But even if people are permanently living there, I wouldn't class it as a successful colonisation until they are able to self sustain.

And we will not be a true space civilisation until we colonise planets/moons outside of our solar system. Even Mars is just the equivalent of putting up a tent in your garden and saying "see, I am camping!".

I think self-sufficiency is the most important milestone, from the perspective of whether our civilisation can survive a catastrophe on Earth, such as extreme climate change, a meteor strike or nuclear war. Obviously there are plenty of important milestones before we get to that point, and as you say after that the new big goal becomes leaving the solar system.

Colonising elsewhere in the solar system doesn't sound unreasonable. I think other solar systems might prove unfortunately near impossible - but who knows what new science and technology might make happen. If we ever do extend beyond our solar system, my money is on it being post-human technology and AI that achieves it, not biological humans.

Any excuse to share another Kurzgesagt video

OrangeRKN wrote:I think self-sufficiency is the most important milestone, from the perspective of whether our civilisation can survive a catastrophe on Earth, such as extreme climate change, a meteor strike or nuclear war. Obviously there are plenty of important milestones before we get to that point, and as you say after that the new big goal becomes leaving the solar system.

All you need is Matt Damon to gooseberry fool on potatoes.

Colonising elsewhere in the solar system doesn't sound unreasonable. I think other solar systems might prove unfortunately near impossible - but who knows what new science and technology might make happen. If we ever do extend beyond our solar system, my money is on it being post-human technology and AI that achieves it, not biological humans.

I think that as long as we keep developing then we will get out to other stars. But that will not be in our lifetimes or even our great great great great grandchildren's lifetimes.

Preezy wrote:Any excuse to share another Kurzgesagt video

https://youtu.be/uqKGREZs6-w

That's not the only relevant Kurzgesagt video.

If we can develop a Skyhook system, we can open up the solar system in ways rocketry and solar sails simply can't.

Nah that Kurzgesagt Mars video is way to pessimistic. We just need to get up there, launch the Eco Accelerator Rockets and before you know it we'll have created our own new world, lush and verdant!

Jenuall wrote:Nah that Kurzgesagt Mars video is way to pessimistic. We just need to get up there, launch the Eco Accelerator Rockets and before you know it we'll have created our own new world, lush and verdant!

It's too hideous to contemplate.

Cheeky Devlin wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Nah that Kurzgesagt Mars video is way to pessimistic. We just need to get up there, launch the Eco Accelerator Rockets and before you know it we'll have created our own new world, lush and verdant!

It's too hideous to contemplate.

Halt, abomination!

Jenuall wrote:

Cheeky Devlin wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Nah that Kurzgesagt Mars video is way to pessimistic. We just need to get up there, launch the Eco Accelerator Rockets and before you know it we'll have created our own new world, lush and verdant!

It's too hideous to contemplate.

Halt, abomination!

Custer! Derek Custer! Kit! Titan!

Cheeky Devlin wrote:

Jenuall wrote:

Cheeky Devlin wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Nah that Kurzgesagt Mars video is way to pessimistic. We just need to get up there, launch the Eco Accelerator Rockets and before you know it we'll have created our own new world, lush and verdant!

It's too hideous to contemplate.

Halt, abomination!

Custer! Derek Custer! Kit! Titan!

That's the crew we need to colonise the universe.

There hasn't been a problem thought up that can beat Derek Custer!

If we just allow the ISS to count as colonisation then we all win this game .