Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Who will you vote for at the next General Election?

Conservatives
8
7%
Labour
66
57%
SNP
7
6%
Lib Dems
10
9%
DUP
1
1%
Sinn Fein
0
No votes
Plaid Cymru
2
2%
SDLP
0
No votes
Alba
0
No votes
Greens
17
15%
Alliance
0
No votes
Other
4
3%
 
Total votes: 115
User avatar
<]:^D
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by <]:^D » Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:38 pm

just use 88 instead; whats the problem?

User avatar
Prototype
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Prototype » Tue Apr 02, 2024 6:23 pm

<]:^D wrote:just use 88 instead; whats the problem?


:slol:

Instead of the problem quietly going away with a quick font change, we now have SS imagery on blast across Europe.

User avatar
Barnsy!
Member
Joined in 2019

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Barnsy! » Tue Apr 02, 2024 10:54 pm

Neo Cortex wrote:The "Right wingers against trans" or whatever they are make me laugh.


Aside from the harm they can cause to trans or vulnerable people they don't make me laugh, they make me feel sad. Sad for the TERFs themselves. In general I define transphobia as "gender criticism minus the empathy", it is ok to have concerns but you should to be kind in airing them.

Transphobia is not acceptable, but I infer cis female TERFs (or more radical feminists in general) have often been hurt by men (for example JK Rowling is a survivor of domestic abuse), which sadly may inform their views. TERFs supposedly believe in "biological gender" and oppose trans inclusion as they see it "men" invading female spaces. Such TERFs [understandably in the case of abuse survivors] are more "anti-men" than other feminists. TERFS include trans-women in their anti-men stance as they do not see trans-women as women.

Being a cis-male TERF [CMT] must be awfully lonely. In the case of the type of female TERF I mentioned above, I presume they would dislike the CMT; moreover, TERF are unwelcome by actual feminists. There seems to be a subset of CMT who are fallen left leaning people (Graham Lineham) - TERF arguments aren't finding roots in their [supposed] ideological allies (the left, non-radical feminists) but rather the people who generally agree them would be right-wing anti-women types. Like, I say it must be lonely.

Then of course there are extremely unpleasant TERFs whose ideology is built around being mean to trans people.

Neo Cortex wrote:They genuinely think that men are only doing it to sneak into women's toilets. Completely disregarding that that isn't the only type of trans person, like female to male doesn't exist. And if it does you are a SICK PERVERT.


I think we should move away from the following arguments
1) Enforcing traditional sex division would mean this passing trans man would have to use/compete in (whatever) womens spaces - ha cis women wouldn't feel safe then either

Whilst ideological inconsistent on the part of the TERF, lets not pretend we don't know all the "concern" is around trans-women in women spaces not the inverse. I think very few people are concerned [from a fairness or safety stance] about trans men in male spaces. Pretending otherwise whilst maybe "satisfying to own the TERFs" is unhelpful and does nothing to alleviate real or manufactured "concerns" around the practicality of self-ID of trans-women in womens spaces.

2) Dismissing cis-womens safety concerns as illogical [e.g. a male inclined to cause harm to women would be unincumbered by which toilet they are allowed in]

Re. "sneaking into womens toilets", it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that someone with ill intent could feel embolden by all this. I'm not a feminist but this is one area we should defer to cis-womens authority within reason. I would like women to be comfortable in affirming their own boundaries and whether or not they feel safe and/or comfortable - I wouldn't counter eitherway in this scenario. I worry there is a liberal pressure on women not to voice concerns - I hope I am mistaken.

User avatar
site23
Member
Joined in 2021

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by site23 » Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:05 pm

Barnsy! wrote:concerns

Barnsy! wrote:I'm not a feminist

Barnsy! wrote:liberal pressure

Hmmmm!

Image
Image
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Jenuall
Location: 40 light-years outside of the Exeter nebula
Contact:

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Jenuall » Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:47 pm

It's a yikes from Bob!

User avatar
Barnsy!
Member
Joined in 2019

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Barnsy! » Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:02 am

Jenuall wrote:It's a yikes from Bob!


Politely, why?

In broad strokes, I made pro-trans and anti-TERF post. I didn't say anything unkind about either group nor spoke with assuredness. I didn't try to speak for anybody (but said I would listen) and attempted to be empathetic toward all parties feelings.

I wasn't trying to be controversial - but feel I may have said something wrong - but I am unsure how / what.

User avatar
Hexx
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Hexx » Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:25 am

So many red flags.

Thought exercise:

Imagine you made a similar post trying to ‘be fair’ to those with genuinely and sincerely held….oh let’s say racist beliefs. (It’s not a perfect match by any means as part way through you decide to begin to use what you mean as ‘gender critical women’ interchangeably with all ‘women’
(Which is one of the many many problematic elements with your views but unpacking it all would take more time than it warrents)

I would like members of the KKK to be comfortable in affirming their own boundaries and whether or not they feel safe and/or comfortable - I wouldn't counter either-way in this scenario. I worry there is a liberal pressure on members of the KKK not to voice concerns


Yikes.

2nd thought exercise. What if I described the above as pro-equality and anti-racist?

Yikes indeed.

3rd excerise - Consider why are you surprised someone saying they don’t believe in female equality gets a ‘Yikes’. Or similar.

User avatar
Barnsy!
Member
Joined in 2019

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Barnsy! » Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:57 am

I don't think the first two thought experiments are fair.

Re. the third, I believe in equality but do not identify as a feminist. I didn't say anything bad about feminists in this post and indeed made a distinction between "real feminists" and TERFs.

Actually it was unnecessary for me to state I wasn't though

Cheers though no harm intended to anyone

User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Moggy » Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:49 am

Barnsy! wrote: I think very few people are concerned [from a fairness or safety stance] about trans men in male spaces. Pretending otherwise whilst maybe "satisfying to own the TERFs" is unhelpful and does nothing to alleviate real or manufactured "concerns" around the practicality of self-ID of trans-women in womens spaces.


Self ID has been around for decades. There are no laws banning trans men/women from using the toilet they believe is correct for them.

The fact that TERFs don't care about the safety of trans men, is evidence that their "concerns" are manufactured and come from a place of bigotry.


Re. "sneaking into womens toilets", it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that someone with ill intent could feel embolden by all this.


I agree to an extent. There are a lot of men out there who are abusers and who might sneak into the womens toilets.

But they are nothing to do with trans people. And no law banning trans people from toilets is ever going to stop a male rapist. They don't need "emboldening" or to put a dress on. That type of man has no respect for other people's rights and they will not follow the law.

I'm not a feminist but this is one area we should defer to cis-womens authority within reason.



Ok. Which cis women? Because the TERFs might shout loudly, but there is no evidence that their views are shared by the majority.


I worry there is a liberal pressure on women not to voice concerns - I hope I am mistaken.


That statement is why your post raises red flags. It's classic far right rhetoric. I'll assume it's not meant that way, but it's still an empty statement.

User avatar
Qikz
#420BlazeIt ♥
Joined in 2011

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Qikz » Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:16 am

Barnsy! wrote:2) Dismissing cis-womens safety concerns as illogical [e.g. a male inclined to cause harm to women would be unincumbered by which toilet they are allowed in]

Re. "sneaking into womens toilets", it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that someone with ill intent could feel embolden by all this. I'm not a feminist but this is one area we should defer to cis-womens authority within reason. I would like women to be comfortable in affirming their own boundaries and whether or not they feel safe and/or comfortable - I wouldn't counter eitherway in this scenario. I worry there is a liberal pressure on women not to voice concerns - I hope I am mistaken.


If a man wants to sneak into womens toilets and do something horrific they won't need to wear a dress or try and make themselves appear trans to do so. This is completely insane and has always been a ridiculous argument.

Secondly there isn't a liberal pressure on women not to voice concerns. There's a vocal pressure on TERFs to stop with the blind hatred and hate speech. The fact is these women you're talking about - TERFs are not voicing concerns and they haven't been for a long time. All they're doing is voicing hate against an incredibly marginalised community of people who just want the ability to be the person they are and not have to hide it / put themselves in uncomfortable situations by making them go into the wrong bathroom (in this situation, there's many other places and ways TERFs persecute against other women).

Assholes like Rowling have done nothing but make the hatred worse. Trans women are women - Trans men are men. Just let them all live their lives in peace.

The Watching Artist wrote:I feel so inept next to Qikz...
User avatar
Hexx
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Hexx » Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:23 am

Qikz wrote: TERFs are not voicing concerns and they haven't been for a long time. All they're doing is voicing hate against an incredibly marginalised community.


See Rowling's recent PR stunt. Nothing about helping "women" all about making sure people know she's allowed to (and actively emboldening others) spread and encourage hate.

Utterly vile woman

User avatar
Red
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Pons Aelius

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Red » Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:25 am

Barnsy! wrote:I believe in equality but do not identify as a feminist.


Why not?

Coconut Bob wrote:You come across as feminine as a cave troll so its no wonder you have little concept of the way females should behave.

Instagram: @amygmatic
User avatar
Moggy
"Special"
Joined in 2008
AKA: Moggy

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Moggy » Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:27 am

Red wrote:
Barnsy! wrote:I believe in equality but do not identify as a feminist.


Why not?


Girls are icky.

User avatar
Victor Mildew
Member
Joined in 2009

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Victor Mildew » Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:39 am

You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of feminist.

Hexx wrote:Ad7 is older and balder than I thought.
User avatar
Qikz
#420BlazeIt ♥
Joined in 2011

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Qikz » Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:44 pm

Victor Mildew wrote:You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of feminist.


:lol:

The Watching Artist wrote:I feel so inept next to Qikz...
User avatar
The Watching Artist
Scrub
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by The Watching Artist » Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:11 pm

Victor Mildew wrote:You are on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of feminist.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Image
User avatar
Garth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
Location: Norn Iron

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Garth » Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:54 pm

twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1775533616375775518


User avatar
rinks
Member
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Aboard the train that goes around the world

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by rinks » Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:36 am

It’s so alluring to anticipate such a dramatic fall for a party that so richly deserves it.

Now watch, as the Tories scrape into a minority government supported by Reform.

User avatar
Oblomov Boblomov
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Mind Crime, SSBM_God

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:29 am

I was 9 in 1997, so I don't feel like I've ever actually witnessed a Tory GE loss.

You'd better believe I'm going to party like it's 199...7 if it happens :toot:.

Image
User avatar
Cuttooth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors
by Cuttooth » Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:31 am

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I was 9 in 1997, so I don't feel like I've ever actually witnessed a Tory GE loss.

You'd better believe I'm going to party like it's 199...7 if it happens :toot:.

But you were 17 in 2005...


Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BTB, Dowbocop, Gideon, Godzilla, Google [Bot], Grumpy David, poshrule_uk, Spindash, Xeno, Yoshimi and 95 guests