Official Formula One and General Motorsport Thread for 2024!

[Robbo-92]

It wasn’t the safest practice, it also meant drivers could be unfairly penalised as they shut the pit lane when the SC came out, so it was either run out of fuel, or get a penalty for coming into the pit lane. Changes need to be made to the sport, but I have no idea what to be honest

Surely the fuel isn’t the issue though? Everyone starts with roughly the same and will target ending with just over 1 litre at the end, so the weights won’t be hugely dissimilar throughout the race.

[Cheeky Devlin]

refuelling is a safety concern mostly, but also the key driver for the 2014 hybrids was for fuel efficiency, so by controlling the fuel cell and allowing teams to take a maximum of 100kg of fuel its a very easy way (in theory) to encourage economy and track usage

Yeah safety was my main thought. Though I hadn't considered the Hybrid aspect but that make some sense as well.

Still, it was always a treat seeing someone dragging the fuel rig down the pitlane.

[Victor Mildew]

It needs something to shake things up a bit.

Is there anything to be said for bringing back refuelling? Combine that with the different tyre combinations and suddenly you get a lot more potential for variable strategies and conditions?
I wasn't watching when they stopped that actually? Do we know what the reason was? I assume they got fed up of drivers heading out with the rig still attached.

It's stupidly dangerous for one thing

[Cheeky Devlin]

It wasn’t the safest practice, it also meant drivers could be unfairly penalised as they shut the pit lane when the SC came out, so it was either run out of fuel, or get a penalty for coming into the pit lane. Changes need to be made to the sport, but I have no idea what to be honest

Surely the fuel isn’t the issue though? Everyone starts with roughly the same and will target ending with just over 1 litre at the end, so the weights won’t be hugely dissimilar throughout the race.

It's not at the moment, but introducing it as a variable could be interesting. Give teams the choice of minimising stops with a full tank but slower top speed versus more stops, less fuel in the tank but higher speeds.
It would open up more strategies and options for teams to strawberry float up try out.

EDIT: I don't think they would bring it back though. As said, the safety issues would prevent that.

[False]

you have to conclude that the primary issue is that the regulations have become so complicated but also so narrow, that the teams are forced into a path that allows little differentiation or innovation - and we are in a situation currently where one team has solved the formula, and requires little forward development to keep the level of performance that others are catching up to

this further compounds by them being able to allocate time and resources into the next years car under the same formula, with minimal risk, so the cycle continues

i suppose the answer is to have a looser formula with more freedom to design, and probably a change up into how soon the next years/formulas regs are telegraphed

this will literally never happen because it creates too much financial uncertainty for the teams and they would never commit - the teams hold absolute power over the organisation and they are too scared of anyone pulling out (while simultaneously blocking any promising new entries it seems)

[Robbo-92]

The fuel stops did mix up the strategies, but in the one season I watched with refuelling, the faster cars still seemed to end up in their normal position by the end of the race, you did get the odd unique strategy, like when Schumacher basically did qualifying style laps for a chunk of a grand prix (Hungary one year rings a bell, but can't be certain), but still the faster cars normally still won the races in the season I have experienced.

you have to conclude that the primary issue is that the regulations have become so complicated but also so narrow, that the teams are forced into a path that allows little differentiation or innovation - and we are in a situation currently where one team has solved the formula, and requires little forward development to keep the level of performance that others are catching up to

this further compounds by them being able to allocate time and resources into the next years car under the same formula, with minimal risk, so the cycle continues

i suppose the answer is to have a looser formula with more freedom to design, and probably a change up into how soon the next years/formulas regs are telegraphed

this will literally never happen because it creates too much financial uncertainty for the teams and they would never commit - the teams hold absolute power over the organisation and they are too scared of anyone pulling out (while simultaneously blocking any promising new entries it seems)

You are correct in that the regs don't really allow for much innovation now, everyone is basically trying to copy Red Bull with varying degrees of success. Looser regs should be the norm, but then I guess more teams would just endlessly complain, so they tighten the rules up so teams can't complain as much?

That is one good step they've taken for 2026, no teams are allowed to use wind tunnel/cfd time for those cars till the 1st of January 2025, so I can't see any teams bringing more than one full update package to their cars for next year, but this means if one team starts off on top, they'll be winning nearly everything, again.

[False]

I think it’s probably gotten to how it is because of all the complaints about spirit of rules and is this allowed or not - you end up with a giant list of what you can’t do, which leaves a very narrow window for what you can

They should set size constraints, power plant constraints, spec parts like wheels and tyres, and an overall aero approach (along with spec safety gear), and see what comes out

[Robbo-92]

To be honest, if I was in charge of it right now, I'd be pushing for a spec series with a few options to make it a little different from other spec series.

- Every team uses the same chassis and aerodynamic packages, but there is 3 levels to choose from each weekend, locked down once you start qualifying, a low, medium and high downforce package, so teams are free to choose what they wish on any weekend, so you could still get some teams trying different packages with their two drivers. I have no idea if F2/F3 have different downforce packages or not to be honest, but the overall F1 package would be a good few seconds quicker than F2 & F3. Ideally these would be a lot lighter than the current cars as well.
- Teams are still free to choose their own engine supplier/create their own if they wish, this would be a much simpler V8 Turbo (or twin turbo) running on sustainable fuel, loads cheaper, they can push sustainable fuels more as well. If they're obsessed by having a hybrid element, bring a slightly larger KERS back, with 10 seconds of usable power each lap the driver can use where they wish. Cheaper engines would mean teams could probably go back up to 8 for the season and still save money.
- Spec pit crew equipment, the 2 second pit stops look good, but in the scheme of things, fans wouldn't care less if these were more like 3 to 4 seconds with spec equipment, still an impressive time.
- More durable tyres that can actually be pushed on constantly without the need to nurse them.

This would make it a load cheaper, so then teams can use some of the budget cap to have two race teams, so that side of the job is much less likely to burn out from fatigue, can pay their staff more, top teams would still draw the best staff to work with the best drivers, spend more on catering, etc and so on.

Of course, the teams would never go for this, but I really don't think this would be a worse overall show than what we get now to be honest, you'd probably never have a boring season though.

[BOR]

Yes, bring the V8 engines back.

I didn't realise that the current F1 cars are about five seconds slower compared back to the V8 or V10 engines.

[Robbo-92]

Doing that alone would save so much money and probably a fair bit of weight from the current cars without changing anything else, the current power units are wonderful from an engineering point, but feel like a waste of money when more and more road cars are going pure electric, or going more into the hydrogen engines which will probably be a safer, longer term solution than the electric cars we see now.

Don't think the cars are slower right now though? Might be on some tracks, but generally I think they're quicker, they do however look insanely slow, but thats partly down to the cameras.

[Victor Mildew]

Yes, bring the V8 engines back.

I didn't realise that the current F1 cars are about five seconds slower compared back to the V8 or V10 engines.

God yes please, I miss those noises so much. Bring them back, and mandate the exhaust must exit through the diffuser like McLaren did in the early 2000s one year, the thing sounded like a strawberry floating plane taking off

[Robbo-92]

I loved the sound of the blown diffusers

[Vermilion]

God yes please, I miss those noises so much. Bring them back, and mandate the exhaust must exit through the diffuser like McLaren did in the early 2000s one year, the thing sounded like a strawberry floating plane taking off

I'm sure your neighbours can assist with this.

[Victor Mildew]

God yes please, I miss those noises so much. Bring them back, and mandate the exhaust must exit through the diffuser like McLaren did in the early 2000s one year, the thing sounded like a strawberry floating plane taking off

I'm sure your neighbours can assist with this.

Diffuser blower bloke

[floydfreak]

Full race upload this Sunday 28th

currently watching this Nascar race far better racing then the gimmick version of Nascar of today

[floydfreak]

twitter.com/MBrundleF1/status/1782884679147823558

twitter.com/LawyerTyson/status/1782888137850515464

yes he is an american

[Victor Mildew]

"As a fan"

The sporting equivalent of "speaking as a parent".

[jimbojango]

The WEC race from Imola was very good, and the finish incredibly close for a six hour endurance race.
The cars are closely matched and look so cool, there are plenty of good drivers, many former F1. If it comes down to it, I’d choose watching an hour of one of these races than F1 now.

Le Mans might be epic this year, with no one team dominating the hypercar class.

[Roonmastor]

It's hard to argue that points should be treasured when they've gone from 10 points to 26 points available in any race (and more on a sprint weekend).

When points available are low, less people should get points, but when they are high, more positions should accrue points.

I'm not that fussed on whether it's 10 or 12 places, but 12 probably makes more sense if there are 24 cars on the grid, so it is top half.

Who is proposing the additional points? Don't the FIA levy a fee from the teams based on how many points they earn. A quick Google says this is like £4k a point.

[jiggles]

Just seems odd that a team could consistently finish 11/12 all season finishes behind a team that is consistently 19/20 all season just because the worse team got a driver to 10th once.