Politics Thread 5

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRKN » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:10 am

Knoyleo wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:It's almost like all people are complex and flawed and deserving of nuanced characterisation, rather than being venerated or vilified in overly simplistic statements that are easy to make headlines out of.

Churchill was both a bit contemptible (especially in hindsight with modern standards) and also an effective war time leader. He is neither hero or villain.

You'd think a politician would be a bit more aware of how calling him a villain is going to play in both the press and with the general public though.



Also, he absolutely was a villain.


Oh it was totally a set-up of a question, but you can see the spin that would come from that answer a mile away.

It's all good wanting to encourage introspection and discussion, but if you want to win an election (which will put you in a position to actually enact meaningful change) you need to be pragmatic, and to an extent you need to play the system.

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BID0
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by BID0 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:27 am

OrangeRKN wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:It's almost like all people are complex and flawed and deserving of nuanced characterisation, rather than being venerated or vilified in overly simplistic statements that are easy to make headlines out of.

Churchill was both a bit contemptible (especially in hindsight with modern standards) and also an effective war time leader. He is neither hero or villain.

You'd think a politician would be a bit more aware of how calling him a villain is going to play in both the press and with the general public though.



Also, he absolutely was a villain.


Oh it was totally a set-up of a question, but you can see the spin that would come from that answer a mile away.

It's all good wanting to encourage introspection and discussion, but if you want to win an election (which will put you in a position to actually enact meaningful change) you need to be pragmatic, and to an extent you need to play the system.

Yes avoiding answering questions has worked out so well for the country so far

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRKN » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:34 am

Tories do it all the time and yet they're in power

But that's disingenuous, I'm not advocating avoiding questions, I'm advocating not giving answers that are obviously going to get taken out of context and used to hurt your chances of winning votes. Saying something like "he's more complex a figure than just calling him a hero or villain" wouldn't be avoiding the question, it would be calling the question out for being a poorly constructed false dichotomy.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:37 am

The real crime of course is that Churchill was a Hammer not a Villain. Why do Tory Prime Ministers constantly get those confused?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:22 pm



Well that makes it official, if Johnson likes him then Churchill must have been a banana split.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Rocsteady » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:40 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:Tories do it all the time and yet they're in power

But that's disingenuous, I'm not advocating avoiding questions, I'm advocating not giving answers that are obviously going to get taken out of context and used to hurt your chances of winning votes. Saying something like "he's more complex a figure than just calling him a hero or villain" wouldn't be avoiding the question, it would be calling the question out for being a poorly constructed false dichotomy.

Totally agree.

Saying simply that he was a villain is so strawberry floating stupidly oversimplistic. The debate around this with the green party on Twitter is dreadful too, as though he was either an all conquering hero or an evil monster with no redeeming traits. Thought people on here would understand it's more nuanced than that.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:42 pm

Rocsteady wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:Tories do it all the time and yet they're in power

But that's disingenuous, I'm not advocating avoiding questions, I'm advocating not giving answers that are obviously going to get taken out of context and used to hurt your chances of winning votes. Saying something like "he's more complex a figure than just calling him a hero or villain" wouldn't be avoiding the question, it would be calling the question out for being a poorly constructed false dichotomy.

Totally agree.

Saying simply that he was a villain is so strawberry floating stupidly oversimplistic. The debate around this with the green party on Twitter is dreadful too, as though he was either an all conquering hero or an evil monster with no redeeming traits. Thought people on here would understand it's more nuanced than that.


Boris Johnson likes him.

Case closed.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Blue Eyes » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:16 pm


I don't feel much sympathy for this girl but having her back will certainly annoy all the right people. Conflicted.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:21 pm

Blue Eyes wrote:
I don't feel much sympathy for this girl but having her back will certainly annoy all the right people. Conflicted.


The liberal left will rally behind her, with talk of human rights etc..... She and others like her will be back living in a council house before you know it with her new kid all funded by you and I.


Hope that she and others like her have 'burned their bridges' when they decided to **** off and join the murderous bastards abroad... Their British passports should have been burned the moment they left, NEVER to darken our shores again.

Made their choices, made their beds they must lie in them, so now if 'life' in those beds has turned out to be not as comfortable as a UK subsidised life over here … tough gooseberry fool!

Cheeky f'ing cow, wtf, she and others in the same situation with the same belief systems and hatred in their hearts should rot where they are or in hell... F # # K H E R and her hate filled poisoned mind.

This country should not spend a single penny more on that waste of space, no comfy life here, not even on the expense of a flight, trial, prison, etc... nothing... Shut the door permanently, good riddance.

There are thousands of tragic lives that need help and compassion already living and sleeping on our streets (often through no fault of their own) spend our cash in helping those poor souls.

PS.. Our police have better things to do than spend scarce resources investigating the likes of her and people like her.. just shut 'em out.

 Go walk out the door, don't turn around now cos you're not welcome anymore! 

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Blue Eyes » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:24 pm

Moggy wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:
I don't feel much sympathy for this girl but having her back will certainly annoy all the right people. Conflicted.


The liberal left will rally behind her, with talk of human rights etc..... She and others like her will be back living in a council house before you know it with her new kid all funded by you and I.


Hope that she and others like her have 'burned their bridges' when they decided to **** off and join the murderous bastards abroad... Their British passports should have been burned the moment they left, NEVER to darken our shores again.

Made their choices, made their beds they must lie in them, so now if 'life' in those beds has turned out to be not as comfortable as a UK subsidised life over here … tough gooseberry fool!

Cheeky f'ing cow, wtf, she and others in the same situation with the same belief systems and hatred in their hearts should rot where they are or in hell... F # # K H E R and her hate filled poisoned mind.

This country should not spend a single penny more on that waste of space, no comfy life here, not even on the expense of a flight, trial, prison, etc... nothing... Shut the door permanently, good riddance.

There are thousands of tragic lives that need help and compassion already living and sleeping on our streets (often through no fault of their own) spend our cash in helping those poor souls.

PS.. Our police have better things to do than spend scarce resources investigating the likes of her and people like her.. just shut 'em out.

 Go walk out the door, don't turn around now cos you're not welcome anymore! 

Yep, those banana splits. Bring her back and kick some racist banana split out of their council house to make room.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:00 pm

Tricky one, that. Based on the interview she gave, she seems to have no remorse whatsoever about leaving to join ISS Pro 98, doesn't appear to be interested in being de-radicalised (which probably points to her being a risk of radicalising others if she came back to the UK) and now that she's an adult I don't think the UK really has any obligation to help her out. Having said that, she was most likely groomed and radicalised when she was only 15 (or younger) so is that her fault? No, but she's not a child anymore. There's also a poor child growing in her that's going to be born into a refugee slum and that's a tragedy, but as of now she's not had the baby so there's no child to consider (yet). I don't know if that legally would change anything?

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Dual
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Dual » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:22 pm

She can come back if she's going to be arrested when the plane lands.

I have zero sympathy and in an ideal world she would have been killed over there like the girl she left with.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:38 pm

Dual wrote:She can come back if she's going to be arrested when the plane lands.

I have zero sympathy and in an ideal world she would have been killed over there like the girl she left with.


15 year old white girl in a relationship with an older Muslim man = she was groomed, she didn’t know what she was doing!

15 year old Muslim girl moves to Syria = evil bitch, I wish she was dead!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:41 pm


Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:45 pm

Lagamorph wrote:


Theresa has discovered that Gove throws away jam?

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Knoyleo » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:57 pm

Lagamorph wrote:

Is one of them going to suggest that maybe the Empire wasn't all good?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:05 pm

Knoyleo wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:

Is one of them going to suggest that maybe the Empire wasn't all good?


It’s better than Total Film.

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suzzopher
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by suzzopher » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:22 pm

She’s going to ignore parliament and push her deal through. If she does it will destroy the Tory party, if we crash out with no deal it will destroy the Tory party. There is no chance of the Tory party surviving this, there are too many on either side of the Brexit debate. That then leaves us with the equally terrible Labour party.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:25 pm

suzzopher wrote:She’s going to ignore parliament and push her deal through. If she does it will destroy the Tory party, if we crash out with no deal it will destroy the Tory party. There is no chance of the Tory party surviving this, there are too many on either side of the Brexit debate. That then leaves us with the equally terrible Labour party.


I think that’s wishful thinking. Tories value their party more than the country. They’ll turn on May when Brexit is done, but they’ll keep the party going.

And Labour will still trail behind them.

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suzzopher
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by suzzopher » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:27 pm

I don’t know there are too many voices either side, I can’t see how pushing this through will keep the party together, it can’t. If she ignores parliament she is sticking her fingers up at her own people.


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