Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Who will you vote for at the next General Election?

Conservative
6
10%
Labour
13
22%
Liberal Democrat
18
31%
Green
16
27%
SNP
4
7%
Brexit Party
0
No votes
UKIP
0
No votes
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
DUP
0
No votes
Sinn Fein
2
3%
The Independent Group for Change
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 59
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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Karl_ » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:28 am

I guess I hard disagree that failure to vaccinate is an acceptable/everyday kind of risk, and I also don't think there is a meaningful line to be drawn here between "life-saving" and "other" treatments. I think we're probably not budging though so I'm happy to just disagree and leave it there!

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Jenuall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:45 am

95% is the number generally accepted as required to provide "herd immunity". In the UK we are already falling (far!) below that for hugely important immunisations such as measles.

Amongst high income countries the UK is the third worst when it comes to MMR vaccine uptake.

Cases of measles quadrupled in the UK from 2017 to 2018.

Worldwide measles cases are already up 300 percent for the data from the start of this year.

PEOPLE DIE FROM MEASLES!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Moggy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:46 am

Jenuall wrote:95% is the number generally accepted as required to provide "herd immunity". In the UK we are already falling (far!) below that for hugely important immunisations such as measles.

Amongst high income countries the UK is the third worst when it comes to MMR vaccine uptake.

Cases of measles quadrupled in the UK from 2017 to 2018.

Worldwide measles cases are already up 300 percent for the data from the start of this year.

PEOPLE DIE FROM MEASLES!


Yeah but parental choice innit.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Knoyleo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:52 am

How would you feel about parents who choose not to educate their kids, Orange Racoon?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Karl_ » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:01 am

The kind of...philosophical status of children (and, fwiw, very-mentally-impaired adults) is interesting. They aren't able to consent on their own behalf so ideas about how to run society based on mutual consent don't apply to them, but they also aren't their parents' property, so the parent can't always fully restrict/allow what happens to them.

I believe that in an ideal world the community would feel a responsibility to all children, and certain community representatives like nurses and teachers would have a kind of democratic consent to look out for the kids around them. I don't think a teacher should need parental consent to teach a kid about evolution or gay people, and I don't think a nurse should need parental consent to give a kid a vaccine.

That's based on gut feeling though. I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society so maybe I should look some up and pop it on my reading list.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by OrangeRKN » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:34 am

Knoyleo wrote:How would you feel about parents who choose not to educate their kids, Orange Racoon?


It's a hard question because it's so ill-defined. I agree with the current legal requirement that children over 5 must receive a full-time education (although the exact dating of compulsory school age is somewhat arbitrary) and I also think it's almost impossible to strictly define what does and doesn't count as education. The law is equally reticent to do so, and if you read up on the requirements for home education they are almost surprisingly lax - self-directed learning through play, for example, can be argued as a form of education.

Although I know there will be specific situations in which it is a preferred solution, in general I don't agree with home schooling - for one I think it will have a negative impact on a child's social skills. However if a parent decides in good faith that they believe it to be the best thing for their child, I don't think my opinion has any greater worth than theirs, so think it only right to defer to the parent's judgement.

Obviously it is important that society protects children from neglect, so if you take your question to mean an extreme deprivation of experience and learning opportunities for that child then yes it is wrong, but if instead you mean something like not achieving any formal qualifications because parent's chose to educate their children differently, I think that is a parent's prerogative.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Moggy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:42 am

OrangeRKN wrote:I agree with the current legal requirement that children over 5 must receive a full-time education


If you believe that the government shouldn’t make vaccination mandatory, why is it ok for the government to make education mandatory?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by KK » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:09 pm

BBC News wrote:A police officer has been killed while attending a reported burglary.

PC Andrew Harper, of Thames Valley Police, died at about 23:30 BST on Thursday in Berkshire.

Ten people aged between 13 and 30 have been arrested on suspicion of murder and are in custody at various police stations across the area.

A cordon has been put in place at the scene near the A4 Bath Road between Reading and Newbury at the crossroads near to Sulhamstead.

PC Harper, who was from the Roads Policing Unit based in Abingdon, was killed while performing his duties, the force said.

Andy Fiddler, from Thames Valley Police Federation, said: "This is totally devastating news.

"All our thoughts - and the thoughts of the entire police family across the UK - are with the family, friends and close colleagues of PC Andrew Harper who died last night."

Deputy Chief Constable Jason Hogg said: "As a force we are devastated at the loss of our colleague and will all be supporting each other at this difficult time."

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he was "deeply shocked and appalled" by PC Harper's death,

"My thoughts are with Pc Harper's family, friends and colleagues at this terrible time."

Home Secretary Priti Patel tweeted her thoughts were also with the officer's family.

Senior investigating officer Det Ch Insp Stuart Blaik said: "This is a tragic incident, and I would like to reassure the public as well as our officers and staff that we have launched a full and thorough investigation to establish what has happened.

"We have made a total of 10 arrests in connection with this incident, and those arrested are currently in police custody. Those arrested are all male and aged between 13 and 30."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49368649

Some pretty shocking stuff going on these past couple days. You also had that poor bloke murdered with a screwdriver for apparently breaking up a fight in Newcastle outside a Greggs yesterday.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - Swinson refuses caretaker
by Nun » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:14 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:It's not practically child abuse, because in many instances the practical (i.e. actual) affect of refusing vaccination is nothing.

I too don't vote in elections because there's so many other votes, my vote won't ever make a difference anyway.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Jenuall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:17 pm

I stopped getting my car MOT'd years ago because I figure most other cars on the road are getting checked so it should be safe enough on average.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Tafdolphin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:21 pm

Orange, never go full Jenny McCarthy.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - Swinson refuses caretaker
by Moggy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:22 pm

Nun wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:It's not practically child abuse, because in many instances the practical (i.e. actual) affect of refusing vaccination is nothing.

I too don't vote in elections because there's so many other votes, my vote won't ever make a difference anyway.


America is right to let people have guns because the vast majority of people don’t get shot.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Knoyleo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:40 pm

Jenuall wrote:I stopped getting my car MOT'd years ago because I figure most other cars on the road are getting checked so it should be safe enough on average.

I thought that was for car insurance?

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Jenuall » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:44 pm

Knoyleo wrote:
Jenuall wrote:I stopped getting my car MOT'd years ago because I figure most other cars on the road are getting checked so it should be safe enough on average.

I thought that was for car insurance?

Just to be clear it was a joke response to the vaccination discussion - the idea that you can "get away" with not doing something yourself and putting others at risk because enough other people are being sensible.

Both insurance and MOT are mandatory. ;)

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Preezy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:57 pm

Karl_ wrote:I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society

Sent to work in uranium mines, surely?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Karl_ » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:58 pm

Preezy wrote:
Karl_ wrote:I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society

Sent to work in uranium mines, surely?

#FULLPOSADISM

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Winckle
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Winckle » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:09 pm

Preezy wrote:
Karl_ wrote:I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society

Sent to work in uranium mines, surely?

That's more of an actually happening right now for real capitalism thing.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Hexx » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:02 pm

Karl_ wrote:I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society


An ideal society wouldn’t have children

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Snowcannon » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:14 pm

Hexx wrote:
Karl_ wrote:I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society


An ideal society wouldn’t have children


Lucien alt spotted

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Moggy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:26 pm

Hexx wrote:
Karl_ wrote:I haven't read any leftist theory on how children should be treated in an ideal society


An ideal society wouldn’t have children


A society that didn’t have children would soon be non-existent.


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