Bloodborne - The Nightly Hunt begins... (The Old Hunters DLC out Tuesday!)

So I fired this up today because of all the demon souls talk.

I just think these games aren't for me.

I really want to like Bloodborne, I love it's style and world, but it's so monotonous when you die.

This game just does not respect your time at all, it's just a chore when you know you can breeze past most of the level but you have to learn a new enemies' behaviour. I think if they made a Bloodborne 2 it would benefit from a Hades type system where you get half life instead of dying straight away.

Also, the combat is boring as gooseberry fool outside of the bosses, there's so much waiting. Groups of enemies are the worst, you just continuously back up and kite a few towards you, then if you accidentally kite too many you get stunlocked and die :simper:

not to mention all of the weapons outside of a select few give you no real stand out reason to use them. The transoforming mechanic makes most of the weapons far too well rounded.

I completed this when it came out, and it was enjoyable, biut going back to it, it's really not as good as everyone says, there are a lot of things they could do to improve the formula.

Thia also doesn't look as good as I remember, the framerate is garbage which really hampers the combat, and for some reason there's a ton of aliasing. There's also a lot of instances where the riposte doesn't trigger when it should which has got me killed a bunch of times.

Yea, that's pretty much how I felt about it.

I loved the world, and I did enjoy the really difficult aspects, but dying was just too much of a set back to enjoy a game where it happens so frequently. 'Not respecting your time' is a great way of putting it - I'm not 15 anymore, I don't have time to spend 15 minutes getting back to the difficult bit everytime.

Last edited by Fade on Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One more thing

The leveling up is really annoying.

The fact that there's no respec AND prices increase as you level up as well as there being a soft level cap (that the game doesn't tell you about) is literally just there ton waste your time.

I know this game doesn't have Shields because the combat is faster paced etc, but because of that it really doesn't give you as much leeway to learn enemy patterns and timing. And the janky frame rate makes that limitation even more annoying. Don't even get me started on the lock on.

I genuinely think I'd enjoy demon souls more because of that.

There is at least one shield in the game to be fair!

I didn't really find it much harder to identify enemy patterns in this than in other Souls games - the ability to recover health more easily and more focus on attacking and dodging that blocking means you can still learn things about enemies quote quickly without being killed.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the suggestion that it doesn't respect your time, other than the odd time where a run to a boss was just that bit too far to go which made repeated attempts just a little bit frustrating.

Jenuall wrote:There is at least one shield in the game to be fair!

I didn't really find it much harder to identify enemy patterns in this than in other Souls games - the ability to recover health more easily and more focus on attacking and dodging that blocking means you can still learn things about enemies quote quickly without being killed.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the suggestion that it doesn't respect your time, other than the odd time where a run to a boss was just that bit too far to go which made repeated attempts just a little bit frustrating.

The health recovery remedies one vs one battles, but it makes getting swarmed far more dangerous and frustrating. The opening section is a perfect example. "This game is faster paced so you can't block, here's 25 enemies you have to slowly kite away from a campfire a few at a time just like every other souls game"

I feel like the entire reason this game has such a heavy leveling up system is so you can just blunt force certain areas, because the way the AI works and the amount of enemies in some areas make it impossible for them to guarantee you won't just get unlucky with the enemy animation cycles.

Because let's be honest, like I said before all the base weapons really don't perform too differently given that they can transform. You have your long slow mode and your short fast mode. There's not really any cool 'builds' you can do like in most action RPGs. Even more so in this game because you can't respec once you get late game gear. What does the leveling actually add to the game? I feel like it was just a carryover from their past games and they didn't know how to alter it so they just kept it the same.

I don't mind a game being mysterious and not telling the player anything, but this game goes a bit over the the top with it. The story is indecipherable without reading a wiki.

I know I ammoaning a lot but it's only because I really want to love this game and I find some of the design choices a bit odd.

I'll platinum this one day and then never play it again haha, I think the only trophies I have left are the normal endings, one of the optional bosses and getting all the weapons.

Shame there's no boss rush mode, the bosses are easily the best part of the game, got nothing bad to say about them.

Last edited by Fade on Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

I genuinely really do hate how the game doesn't tell you things and then punishes you for making decisions without that knowledge.

This game is just designed for people who have hours and hours to waste.

Oh you want to make a character that can use this late game weapon really well that you didn't know was in the game? No sorry, you can't respec, make another character and do it all over again.

Oh what you didn't know that visceral attack damage scaled with skill? Or that some attacks do more damage to certain enemies because they're considered serrated or church or somemshit. Or how the hell beasthood even works or why you'd want to use it.

I'm sorry, but making stuff so obscure in game does nothing but force people to look at the wiki. It doesn't add a sense of discovery, it's one of those games where the numbers are there to try and add some much needed depth to the combat, but they just don't.

I usually make battlemage type classes in RPGs but why the hell would I put echoes into arcane in this game when you don't get any spell items for absolutely ages?

All the stats do in this game is force grinding and gatekeep certain items. This game would be so much better with a more streamlined system like Bloodstained.

Oh and I ust found out something else fun, vitality gives you way more benefits than strength or skill. Despite them all being on the same number scale investing the same points in health almost doubles it, where as if you invest them in strength you get like a 15% damage boost.

Would have been nice to know that before I dumped all my points into strength and skill. You can tell they did that to stop people making super high damaging builds and killing bosses too quickly, but if that's the case why not either communicate that to the player so they don't waste their upgrades or streamline the stats since they clearly want the boss battles to be these cinematic experiences that people can't tackle with interesting strategies.

Just wondering, Fade - and you might have said this already and I have missed it - have you played Dark Souls? Reading over your concerns about Bloodborne, it seems like many of the aspects could be attributed to Souls, too.

It kinda feels like the game style may not be your bag. I can totally see why - it can be *so* frustrating to repeat sections after dying, there certainly is some jank and many game functions aren't really explained at all! - and I totally get your complaints, but I find them to be a part of the experience. I'm a newcomer to Souls games but I'm learning that replaying them is a key factor; things that seem impossible, annoying and downright unfair at first can often be worked-around once you discover new tools and techniques.

Should things be better explained during the first play? Possibly, but the "Souls" approach is what the games are. I can understand why they are divisive!

jawa wrote:Just wondering, Fade - and you might have said this already and I have missed it - have you played Dark Souls? Reading over your concerns about Bloodborne, it seems like many of the aspects could be attributed to Souls, too.

It kinda feels like the game style may not be your bag. I can totally see why - it can be *so* frustrating to repeat sections after dying, there certainly is some jank and many game functions aren't really explained at all! - and I totally get your complaints, but I find them to be a part of the experience. I'm a newcomer to Souls games but I'm learning that replaying them is a key factor; things that seem impossible, annoying and downright unfair at first can often be worked-around once you discover new tools and techniques.

Should things be better explained during the first play? Possibly, but the "Souls" approach is what the games are. I can understand why they are divisive!

Briefly, also played quite a bit of demon souls back in the day but never finished it.

I don't particularly mind the dying and retrying, my issue is more with the obscurity in which the game presents its stats and systems, combined with the fact you can't respec.

The leveling in this game just doesn't suit it, in Demon and Dark souls it makes sense since you have so many variables and can play as a magic user, rogue, knight etc not only that but you have a larger variety of defensive options which are all affected by your stats. That's the whole point of RPG systems, to give players choice and variance.

This game doesn't do that, on their first playthrough most players are going to be playing in the exact same way because the early game weapons play almost exactly the same and employ exactly the same strategies.

It'd be like if Dark Souls gave you the choice of 3 slightly different sword and shields at the start of the game.

All the stats do in this game is impede your progress rather than let you express yourself as a player. This game would have been so much better without all of the obscure stats. A simplified system like Sekiro would have suited this game a lot more.

This game is good, but the fact it's 92 on metacritic is baffling to me, there's so many things in its design that are just carryovers from old FromSoft games and don't gel well with this game at all, not to mention the technical issues.

It just makes me sad how flawed this game is because I think it's art and character design is my favourite of any game ever.

Holy gooseberry fool, the Ludwig fight in the DLC is an actual joke.

It's so poorly designed. The boss looks cool but who thought it would be a good idea to give him a bunch of random, unreactable mid range attacks? I died like 20 times to the Cainhurst crow and was cool with it, but this boss is just unfair.

I guess their thought process was "the only people who will play this are people who have finished the game so we we as well go full dumbass with it"

I've called for help with him twice and both times my team mate got one shot. Only time I've felt the need to summon someone too. I've just uninstalled the game it's had me so pissed off.

For perspective I beat the one reborn and shadows of Yarnham on my first try. I'm already at like 15 on Ludwig.

I found tying him up near the stairs made it pretty easy. He's one where ironically his transformed second stage is actually much easier to dodge attacks as well

one thing i really love about Fromsoft games is the first time you play a boss you think to yourself "what the strawberry float this is so unfair, how can i beat this!?"
and then, 5,10,20 (50 :shifty:

) times later, youre a badass who's barely getting hit and the feeling of beating them is immense.

Fade i would suggest using a guide/watching some basic walkthrough videos on Bloodborne as it sounds like most of your complaints are on the obscurity of information which i am inclined to agree with. im playing Sekiro at the moment and that also hides stuff that you either have to pay attention to more than i am capable or willing to do, or go through trial and error so i just look up a guide or two here or there. like you said i dont have time to try everything out on every boss, i just want to practice killing them and move on.

I think you're mistaken.

I have had no problem with the rest of the bosses, as unfair and as frustrating as they have seemed, because once I had beaten them I could see where I went wrong. Amelia killed me loads of times for example, but I knew it was because I was messing up my timing so I was happy to keep trying.

But Ludwig literally has 3-4 different attacks he can do from mid range and if you wait to see what he's going to do you won't have time to react unless he does the orange claw one.

He just has no weaknesses or anything you can exploit. Most big bosses are slow to balance them out, or they have really obvious gaps where you can hit them if they're not slow (like the moon presence) this guy has nothing.

I've beat every other boss solo, and the fact I called for help on this boss and they got massacred both times says enough I think.

It's just a shitty boss they didn't balance properly because it was in the DLC

It must suck to have made such an artistically beautiful game and have only 25% of people complete it (going by trophies) because you're so far up your own ass you feel you need to make everything super obscure for no reason.

jesus christ Fade i was with you until you said this:

But Ludwig literally has 3-4 different attacks he can do from mid range and if you wait to see what he's going to do you won't have time to react unless he does the orange claw one.

He just has no weaknesses or anything you can exploit. Most big bosses are slow to balance them out, or they have really obvious gaps where you can hit them if they're not slow (like the moon presence) this guy has nothing.

i beat him, hes not impossible, hes not unfair, youre just not good enough yet. multiple people have no hit run BB, including this boss. the only attack that is actually a bit unfair is the one where he jumps on the ceiling cos hes hard to see so you have to use an audio cue.

also i will (un)happily admit i think it took me probably somewhere around 30 attempts to beat Ludwig; hes hard. also if you think hes hard wait till you fight the last DLC boss :lol:

No he's not impossible, but yes he is unfair.

Anything can be beaten without getting hit once if you know how to exploit the AI. But if a normal player isn't go to be reasonablly taught that in the normal course of gameplay that's kind of irrelevant.

The point is he has attacks that can't be dodged on reaction, which is just unfair when combined with everything else.

There's a difference between things being hard but reasonably masterable and hard in a way that is just factually unfair.

waffle

I'm literally giving you fact based arguments, you're the one posting waffle.

I don't know what to tell you if your reactions just aren't up to scratch. Maybe the game's simply not for you, because when you learn it he's absolutely doable. You learn his patterns, learn his rhythm, and learn his tells. Then he goes down. Like any boss.

Are you positioning properly? Are you efficiently dodging? Are you staggering him? There are plenty of things you can do to make the fight easier.

I beat him on my second go, but then I think I just rushed and tanked him. I don't remember anything particulary special about the right, but I probably had maxed out and bonus health vials.

Victor Mildew wrote:I beat him on my second go, but then I think I just rushed and tanked him. I don't remember anything particulary special about the right, but I probably had maxed out and bonus health vials.

check out big boy over here :roll:

Did it on my first try one handed, wearing no armour and without taking a hit. The Devs gave me a unique trophy that nobody else can ever get because they checked the data and said I was better than anyone they'd ever seen play the game.

You won't be able to check any of that though because I did it on my cousin's PSN account

Bloodborne - The Nightly Hunt begins... (The Old Hunters DLC out Tuesday!)

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